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The Realm of Sleep Explained

Discussion in 'Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance' started by Elfdemon, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. Elfdemon

    Elfdemon Member

    I'll explain the Sleeping Worlds/the realm of sleep.

    (This is a part of my "Explained" series of posts. To view my "Time Travel Explained" post, click here, to view my "Heartless, Nobodies, Unversed, and Dream Eaters Explained" post, click here, and to view my "The Braig/Xigbar Situation Explained" post, click here.)

    All the "realm of sleep" is, is dreams. Worlds can dream and people can dream. When a world falls to darkness/goes to the Realm of Darkness, they also fall asleep and they dream. The worlds we go to in Dream Drop Distance are dreams of worlds that were freed from darkness, but were not freed from their sleep. Yen Sid sent Sora and Riku back in time to Destiny Islands before it fell to darkness, so that they could sort of "ride" Destiny Islands into darkness, therefore ride it into sleep. Once they rode it into sleep and fell asleep, they unknowingly opened the first Sleeping Keyhole and were transported to the next Sleeping World/the first Sleeping World from the present-day that they need to save.

    When this happened, Riku unknowingly dove into Sora's dreams and became a Spirit Dream Eater to protect him from Nightmares. So, throughout the game, Sora is in the dreams of the worlds that fell to darkness, but didn't wake from their sleep, and Riku is in Sora's dreams.

    Things change when they get to The World That Never Was though. The World That Never Was is not a Sleeping World. It's a real world in the Realm Between. There's a cutscene where Yen Sid says that Sora and Riku will eventually end up out of the Sleeping Worlds and into a world that's in the Realm Between. That world was The World That Never Was. It's not a Sleeping World, but when Riku arrived there, he was still in the realm of sleep since he was still in Sora's dreams and has been the whole journey. After Riku defeats Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, he's brought back to the real world and out of the realm of sleep. When Sora arrived at The World That Never Was, he was in the real world and out of the dream. But, Young Xehanort dragged Sora back into the realm of sleep, but this time, he dragged Sora into Sora's own dreams instead of the world's dreams. Then, Xigbar dragged Sora into a second sleep. So, Sora's sleeping body was in Sora's own dreams which is why Riku saw it before he fought Anti Black Coat. Anyways, after Young Xehanort successfully puts Sora into a weird sleep coma by dragging him further and further into dreams, he brings him back to the real world and places him on one of the Organization XIII thrones.

    Riku still had his Dream Eaters and his Dream Eater powers in the real world of The World That Never Was because Sora was still asleep. He still had a weird Dream Eater connection to him.

    Nomura said The Mysterious Tower drifts around and doesn't stay in the same place. The Mysterious Tower used to be a part of a world called Symphony of Sorcery. It's drifted away from that world a long time ago though. The world "Symphony of Sorcery" is a Sleeping World. The reason The Mysterious Tower shows up in that world is because the dream is filling in the gaps, just like it fills in the gaps with characters.

    The Grid is a digital world inside of a computer in a world that we don't know the name of. The world that Sam Flynn is from. Just like how Space Paranoids is a digital world inside of a computer in Radiant Garden. Space Paranoids is a copy of The Grid made by Ansem the Wise. The reason Space Paranoids looks so different than The Grid though is because he copied it a long time ago. Space Paranoids is what The Grid used to look like. The Grid is not a Sleeping World, but the world it's attached to/the world it's a computer on, is a Sleeping World. Which is why Dream Eaters show up there.

    Country of the Musketeers is simply a world Mickey, Donald, and Goofy traveled to on their adventures. Minnie used to be a resident there, and she later moved to Disney Town to be with Mickey.

    Also, the Robed Figure was there on Destiny Islands in the first Kingdom Hearts so that he could mark the time traveling Sora with the Recusant's Sigil and so that Young Xehanort can time travel to where the Robed Figure is and follow Sora and Riku into the realm of sleep. So, now that Sora was marked with the Recusant's Sigil and now that Young Xehanort was in the same time period as Sora, he was able to teleport to wherever he was.

    Oh, and we now know that the official name for the realm of sleep is "Unchained." In Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance, it was called many different things, it seemed to not have an official name. It was actually called "the realm of sleep" only once. So, yeah, it's the "Unchained" realm.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  2. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    You're making several assumptions.

    It was never stated the realm of sleep and Unchained are the same realm. It's likely but no bluntly stated truth. Don't treat it as one.

    Next, it was said in interviews that worlds like yen sids tower, Traverse Town and Twtnw were in slee and reality simultaneously due to their nature as inbetween worlds.

    It was also never said Yen Sods tower used to be a pet of another world. We just know it drifts and that Symphony of Sorcery is apparently a world within a music sheet the same as Poohs in a book.

    When Riku first appears in twtnw it's Soras dream, when he beats the nightmare and appears at the Memory Skyscraper he's in the real world but still a dream eater since Sora is sleeping and it was through Soras dreams he was traveling.

    Young Xehanort can only go to where versions of himself are. Soras sigil let them know where he was but what allowed YX to be in that era at all was Ansem.

    You're also making assumptions of the Musketeers world. Sora soecilat d it's Mickeys last but it was never detailed fully.

    Same for that being Minnie's original world. The fact there's a Pete there but an even earlier one if Timeless arrived kinda pokes a whole in this. We know Disney castles past is Petes home world. He shouldn't have been able to travel between worlds at the point of TR or CoM.

    I'm driving home from vacation. I'll add more or reply to any info you add once in home tomorrow.
    I may have missed interviews but as far as I remember some of this is either assumption, headcanon or you made the mistake of reading the KH wiki.
     
  3. Elfdemon

    Elfdemon Member

    It is confirmed. Ava confirms it in Back Cover. She says that the world the Dandelions will be going to is a world made of dreams. That's what the realm of sleep is. What more can they do to confirm it? They wouldn't just outright say "Unchained is the realm of sleep", because no one in the KH universe even calls it "the realm of sleep". That's mainly just a name given to the realm by fans. It was only called "the realm of sleep" once in DDD.

    You misinterpreted those interviews. Nomura wasn't saying that worlds in the Realm Between are automatically sleeping worlds as well. He was saying that the nature of these worlds are unique, which allows them to do certain things. For example, the Mysterious Tower can drift around. It used to be a part of another world called "Symphony of Sorcery", but it has drifted away from that world long ago. And the dream of Symphony of Sorcery was just dreaming of the tower still being there. That was the whole point of Nomura saying that the Mysterious Tower can drift around. The books that are in Symphony of Sorcery are known as the "musical realms". The world logo for "Symphony of Sorcery" comes up right when you enter the world, not when you enter the books.

    That's literally what I said, just in different words.

    Yup, I know that. That's what I said.

    I've made zero assumptions. I don't know what you're trying to say with the second part of this sentence.

    If Minnie is the princess of that place, then it's definitely her original world. Pete, Mickey, etc. all come from Timeless River. Just because we don't know how Pete got there doesn't mean he didn't find a way. We don't know how Xehanort got from Destiny Islands to Land of Departure, but we know he got there somehow. There are countless unanswered questions in this series. I'm just stating the facts.
     
  4. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    Actually, Symphony of Sorcery is a world within sheet music as you can clearly see from playing. Yen Sid's Tower never used to be a part of it.
     
  5. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    lmao If it was called "the Realm of Sleep" once in a game then that's it's name. You're telling me to ignore what the game tells me with this statement.

    As for the first part, okay if that's the case can you present me a scene from the english version of KHUX or Chi? Because if you're gonna tell me this give me some sources released by the official source.

    I assume you mean this quote yes?

    Because nothing about this states the Tower was a part of another world. Again, give me something to state otherwise because all Nomura said was that the world drifts in general. All that we know is these worlds have unique rules. He didn't specify that rule. I fail to see what I misinterpreted.

    If so then reword it because you confused me with your phrasing. I apologize.


    Again, confusing word phrasing.

    That one was my bad, I was on my phone. What I said was it was Sora's speculation it was the past. Given Mickey's knowledge of keyblades in each appearance it's even likely but this doesn't back up it's Minnies home world.

    Okay, let me get this straight. You're arguing facts with me then using the argument of unanswered questions and "I don't know" to back these facts? Man that doesn't work.

    Even your example of YX doesn't work because he gains a keyblade at one point. That thing can basically take him anywhere and that's assuming his master didn't return to get him once he gained it. Minnie isn't a wielder.

    You can claim it's her original world all you want but unless you back this statement it's headcanon or assumption based on information that's ambiguous. Yes she's there but this world is asleep when Disney castle is not. Why would Minnie abandon her world? Why would Pete be there when his younger self is in this world?

    You can't pass off this "fact" when there's nothing stating it is. The KH wikis make this mistake all the time and even Khinsider made this mistake with their video they made with Gametrailers using the "walking heart" terminology.

    Yes it's a good or possible head canon but it's not a "fact" until the game or at least Nomura says it is. You're spreading misinformation this way rather than actual facts.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  6. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    And to be fair I'll quote my own source: https://www.khinsider.com/news/KH3D-Ultimania-Interviews-Translated-2602#Scenario Mysteries

    Also I did find some additional info on Yen Sids tower but nothing to what you've stated:
    — After that, he came to Yen Sid hoping to train.

    Nomura: Yes. Since the Mysterious Tower is in an unknown spot, first you have to enter via King Mickey’s world. After that, they’re training in a place where time flows differently, managed by Merlin, the great magician who can exceed time, as well as the Fairies.
    source: https://www.khinsider.com/news/KH3D-Famitsu-Weekly-Interview-Translated-2603
     
  7. Elfdemon

    Elfdemon Member

    You can clearly see from playing that the books are not Symphony of Sorcery. The books are separate, smaller, realms within the world of Symphony of Sorcery. The books that are in Symphony of Sorcery are known as the "musical realms". The world logo for "Symphony of Sorcery" comes up right when you enter the world, not when you enter the books.
     
  8. Elfdemon

    Elfdemon Member

    Not true. It was called "the realm of sleep" only once by Yen Sid, and it was called the "Sleeping Worlds", the "world of dreams", and the "realm of dreams" tons of times by multiple characters. What makes you think it's called "the realm of sleep" and not the "Sleeping Worlds" or the "world of dreams" or the "realm of dreams". Those names are much more likely since they are used much more often. Another thing to note is that "the realm of sleep" isn't even capitalized in the captions, while the "Sleeping Worlds" is capitalized.


    I mean, if you've seen Back Cover, you should know this. But here you go:

    Btw, are you completely up to date on KHX, KHUX, and Union X? Because it should be pretty obvious by now that the Dandelions are in the realm of sleep/Unchained realm.

    A part of Ava's role given to her by The Master of Masters is to divide the Dandelions into five different Unions with their own Union leaders, just like how the Foretellers were the Union leaders of five different Unions. So far, we know that Ephemer, Skuld, Ventus, and Blaine are Union leaders. We have yet to know the fifth Union leader.

    They are to go into the Unchained realm (the realm of sleep) in order to prepare for the world after and to forget their moments of tragedy (their memories of the Keyblade War). To make this happen, the Chirithys owned by the Dandelions will bring their owners into the Unchained realm (they're Dream Eaters, so they can do this) and they have to lie to the Dandelions and say that the Keyblade War was just a dream and they can't tell them they're in the Unchained realm. This is all to make them forget their moments of tragedy because those memories won't be needed in the world after, according to The Master of Masters.

    The only people who know about these lies that they have to tell the Dandelions are the Dandelion Union leaders, Ava, The Master of Masters, and the Chirithys.

    KHUX is a sequel to KHX that takes place in the Unchained realm. The Chirithy took the player there after the Keyblade War and had them forget what happened. There, in the Unchained realm, the Player and all the Dandelions are repeating their entire journey from KHX over again in order to have them forget the Keyblade War and make it seem like it was just a dream. Now, in Union X, the Player and the Dandelions have finally caught up with and gone through their entire journey from KHX over again (except without the Keyblade War). The Player has begun getting flashbacks from the Keyblade War. They think it's just from a dream though.

    It doesn't directly say it, but it's implied. You're completely ignoring the context. Nomura was asked why/how Mysterious Tower was in the realm of sleep. His explanation was that Mysterious Tower can drift around because it's a world in the Realm Between and worlds in the Realm Between have unique abilities. He brings up the fact that it once drifted next to Twilight Town and sort of became a part of that world. If you take into account the context clues, it's clear what he means by this. The Mysterious Tower once, a long time ago, drifted next to a world. That world then fell to darkness, therefore falling asleep and dreaming. It dreamed of it's past self, like all sleeping worlds do. Since the Mysterious Tower used to be a part of this world in its past, it dreamed of Mysterious Tower still being there. If this isn't what Nomura means, then his answer to the question makes no sense and is irrelevant to the question that was asked. That's like asking "How was your day?", then replying with "Yeah, my favorite hobby is art." Doesn't make sense. You need to take into account the context/the question that was asked of him.

    And your saying that worlds in the Realm Between are also in the realm of sleep? That doesn't make sense. All the realm of sleep is, is dreams. Dreams of people and dreams of worlds. Worlds only fall asleep when they fall to darkness/fall to the Realm of Darkness. If Mysterious Tower was a sleeping world this whole time, then Sora and Riku wouldn't have had to go back in time to before Destiny Islands fell to darkness in order to ride it into sleep to enter the realm of sleep. They could've just used Mysterious Tower or any other worlds in the Realm Between.


    There's not really any other way to word it without making it inaccurate in some way. This is pretty much the only way to accurately explain the extremely convoluted and intertwined story of DDD. And everyone else who's seen this explanation of mine haven't had any issues understanding. It actually cleared things up for a lot of people who were confused at DDD's story. I apologize as well though, my reply to your reply seemed sort of condescending. I shouldn't have used words like "Yup" lmao.



    That's an odd interpretation of what I'm doing. I'm simply stating facts. And I'm saying "I don't know" to things that are currently unanswered instead of trying to make up some sort of theory or conjecture or headcanon.

    Not sure what you mean by this. Young Xehanort didn't have a Keyblade when he was on Destiny Islands. He gained his Keyblade after he went to Land of Departure and trained.

    The Keyblade he uses in DDD is just Master Xehanort's Keyblade (No Name), but with a different Keychain on it. He's able to wield it because Xehanort put his consciousness inside of him and was controlling him. Xehanort can put his consciousness into his vessels and control them and have them wield his Keyblade.

    Nomura: Indeed. Time was stopped just as Master Xehanort was materializing. So he moved his consciousness to Young Xehanort’s body. Reacting to this, King Mickey exclaimed, “That’s impossible!” Young Xehanort was holding a Keyblade that he originally wasn’t able to handle thanks to Master Xehanort’s power. Though the keychain on it is different, the Keyblade he takes out is Master Xehanort’s.

    The characters in the world's dreams are not real. They are figments of the dreams. Yen Sid explains this in DDD. The worlds dream of their past selves. We essentially got glimpses of the past. Minnie used to be the princess of Country of the Musketeers. She hasn't been that for a long time. Now, she's the queen of Disney Castle/Disney Town.

    Not sure what you're talking about with that "walking heart" part. But I'm a massive advocate of stopping the spread of false information. That's why I make these "Explained" posts and that's why I go around discussing these things with people and correcting them.
     
  9. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    I can ask you the same question. I call it the realm of sleep because realms hold worlds. Sleeping worlds for example exist in that realm. Similar to how the worlds in general exist within the realm of light.

    The realm of darkness also isn't capitalized at times so what makes you think that's relevant? We know that's what realm it is. This argument is double edged, you're asking why one name would be more relevant over the other while picking one of these to name it.

    I took it as the realm of sleep because it was called as such. Multiple worlds exist in one realm, that's how it's been so far, so if the game calls the collective the realm of sleep so do I.

    I know all of this. You're missing my point. I'm arguing the realm of sleep and the Unchained Realm aren't bluntly told to be unison, I never said the possibility isn't likely.

    I'm arguing against filling in your interruptions as facts. If I recall, didn't he master also mentioned he'd make this world of no suffering? That alone brings up questions.
    Hell, for all we know the Unchained realm, or going by your arguments with semantics, worlds is just within the realm of sleep. Perhaps it's a sleeping world. Perhaps the realm of sleep has a counterpart just like the realm of light does.

    If it's the realm of sleep then did the Master make it? Did it always exist and he made a space within it?

    In a series that likes to be convoluted for the sake of it you can't really rule anything out.

    Implication isn't a fact. Implication is just that, allusion. On top of this, implications can vary widely. The exact reason why I'm pointing this out. You're passing your view of it as a fact. A fact is bluntly stated, not alluded.

    What you're essentially doing here is running with your own interruption of that line and it's "context" and stating it as a fact of this universe. That's spreading misinformation, not clearing it up.
    All Nomura said was the world drifted, you're pinning the context yourself and acting like he said this word for word. All he literally said was this world drifts He never said it was a part of a world, he never said it separated from a world. This is personal assumption and you're arguing it as a fact that's in stone.

    I also never said that either. You're adding "context" to my own words now to justify yourself. All I did was point out that Nomura said the world was "unique" or had it's own set of rules. Those rules weren't specified.

    Although, now that you've mentioned this tidbit, the fact that we see two versions of this world would imply that is somehow of a dual nature. That however is just pure speculation like most of what your arguing me with.

    Last I remember you on KHi your posts were replied too initially (but rarely later) and things pointed out repeatedly as you fought them tooth and nail with Sephiroth0812. I don't know about condescending, I don't make assumptions. When online, words can seem more harsh or double layered than they actually are.

    When you reply to something with "Just because we don't know how Pete got there doesn't mean he didn't find a way. We don't know how Xehanort got from Destiny Islands to Land of Departure, but we know he got there somehow. There are countless unanswered questions in this series."
    Using "just because" or "there are countless unanswered questions" is expecting me, or implying again this is online with no cues, to just ignore what you're telling me because other things lack answers.
    Just because you call it a "fact" doesn't make it so. The realm of sleep correlation is very likely, just not bluntly stated. What you're arguing here with Minnie is something you've established in your mind, not what was established in the game.

    It's a possible head canon sure, but it's not a fact stated in the game or by Nomura. I point it out because you're acting like it is which is a spread of head canon as misinformation.

    I know this. I never said he had one on the island, I said he'd get one eventually. If you missed the analogy though then this is just a pointless tangent to ignore.

    Also when you use quotes, post your source. I know that quote is from KHi but for future use on any other sites you visit it's best to site sources so people don't think it's just there.

    That is correct but, again, nothing you've shown proves what you're selling. Something that you piece together is just something you have pieced together. A "fact" is a statement established by a source. In this case, you need the game or Nomura to stat this was her original world, why she left and why Pete seems to be there and not recognize Mickey despite younger versions of Mickey being his deck hand when he owned his boat.

    The correlation between the early 1900s of Mickey and Petes' selves in timeless river and their selves in COM isn't helping sell your point either.

    So I've seen. Many of your posts do well but from what I remember on KHi and seeing you here you also dont handle being contested well. You're also still doing what you're claiming to not do by adding your headcanons to these posts.
    You're not a fact source, you're meant to put an actual source in a form people can digest. By adding headcanons and then sitting here and arguing them with me and posting them is spreading misinformation, not clearing it up.

    Yes the unchained to sleep is likely, but it's still not stated. I only argue it because the series had never been one to not hold reservations until it's stated bluntly. Nothing in game or out mentions this history you're spreading of Minnie and the Musketeer world either, thus I point it out.

    Head canons are fine, many very probable, but probability doesn't equal factual statement. As for your arguments on Yen Sid's tower, the only "context" I see are the ones you're trying to add to it. Trying to put words in Nomura's mouth or mine aren't gonna make what you believe fact, spreading it as a fact is, again, counterproductive to the intent of your posts.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  10. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    Do you even see what you're saying here? I don't remember them stating "musical realm" but a world logo is a world logo. First you told us to ignore in game statements, now you're telling us to ignore world logos too?

    Also "books"? Those are sheets of music, they aren't bound by a spine or a cover. They're sheets of paper with music on them that you can dive into similar to Pooh's Book.



    The logo techinically doesn't appear till you're told to go into said sheets at that. Yen Sids tower has it's own logo outside this level as well, even in KHBBS and KH2 Yen Sids tower already has an established logo.

    This logo is obviously music themed for the musical world that is in those sheets. You can argue that with all you want but we have no real reason to reply or take your argument seriously when you're telling us to ignore something so straight forward as the logo for a world itself.

    That'd be like reading the bible or Hamelt then saying this character didn't say this line that's right in our faces in a published work.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
    Evil McFingerWiggles likes this.
  11. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    So what the logo appears before the sheets? Clearly the world within the sheets is musically themed as the logo suggests and Young Xehanort appears within it and calls it a world and not a realm as you believe.
     
  12. Elfdemon

    Elfdemon Member

    I don't know what you're trying to point out with the world logo. I think you misunderstood me, because I never meant that the logo should be ignored or anything like that. I don't see how it showing up when you're told to go into the musical realm means anything. I can see how it'd mean something if it showed up when you're already inside the musical realm, but it shows up before you enter the musical realms. While you're still in Yen Sid's tower.

    I'm not sure how much further this argument can go lol. I think that's what Nomura meant by the world drifting away. I think that's the only thing that he could've meant by that and that it was obvious what he meant when you take the context into account. It's hard to argue what seems like common sense, but I'm sure you feel the same way. And with the Minnie stuff, it appears we've both just gotten to a point where we're saying what each other is saying is just headcanon. If anything, that's a sign that this is as far as this argument can go.

    The logo is musically themed because the majority of your time in the world takes place within the musical realms. Sort of like how the Disney Castle/Disney Town world is called "Disney Castle" for Sora because he's only been to the castle and the world logo is themed after the castle, when in reality, it's a much bigger world than just the castle and it has a whole town.

    And yes, they are realms. It literally says "Enter the musical realm?" when you try to enter the music sheet books. When Young Xehanort called it a "world" he was referring to the whole Symphony of Sorcery world as a whole. They are realms within a world. The realms are a part of the world.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    I almost forgot this thread and argument was here given real life the past week...Hmm *rereads* I didn't misunderstand but it's obvious there's no point to talk to you about it further. The fact you're still trying to tell me what "context" is without there actually being any just shows that this is at a stalemate. Context isn't decided by you, nor is what you decide is context canon.

    You want to continue to push your headcanon as the actual law and I don't want to accept something that isn't told to me by the medium itself. I don't think anything I mentioned was bordering on headcanon but I won't argue it till the point it does, it'd be pointless to fight your headcanon by using my own, we'd be no different in such a case.

    So you do you bro but you've not really proved much to me even still.

    That doesn't really change the issue of said logo you're trying to push I'm afraid. This does prove that, the sheets at least, are realms within a world. For once you've actually provided evidence that wasn't a headcanon thus I'll just drop this here.

    -----------------------------
    Edit.
    Rereading this more reminds me of how much an @$$ kh crap makes me. Granted I still don't agree with your headcanon agenda but I dislike myself after reading this as much as you do. Ugh (I really need to kill what's left of that inner elitist.....)
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  14. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    I do need to say, rereading this has reminded me of why KHUX has become less interesting than it once was. Like,
    this being a dream would explain more things than the story itself has. The only real thing that bothers me now about the dream theory is the two or more war thing.

    If the war destroys the world and then Sora's world is born due to this then what is the current Realm Sora lives in? Because KHUX (Chi's "season two") takes place in this 'Unchained Realm'. It's hinted to be a world of dreams but if the war Xehanort describes is actually a second war like some theorize then that would make the Unchained realm and the Light realm the same place.

    And if THAT's the case then that would mean Sora's realm is possibly a sleeping one which wouldn't make sense for a whole slew of reasons.

    Granted you can always argue the original world the first war was fought in created Sora's world but that goes back into the fact the initial war mentioned nothing the other games describe about it.

    Welp I'm done, I'll leave you to your headcanons, enjoy~
     
  15. Elfdemon

    Elfdemon Member

    I feel the same way about myself. At least we realized/got something out of this whole fiasco lol
    GG
     

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