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FFXII Fridge Brilliance

Discussion in 'Final Fantasy XII' started by Desert Warrior, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. Jan 28, 2011 #1
    Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    Wandering around the many pages of TV Tropes I found an interesting page. Basically, it is some subtle things about FFXII that may not make sense at first (There's also some pages for other FF games. I might post them later, but so far I've only read the page for X and XII, and X's wasn't really interesting).

    For starters, here's the webpage

    Anyways, on to more of the important parts. For those of you too lazy to look at the page, I might as well quickly list some entries I found interesting.

    1. Vaan's role in the story. Most people find Vaan useless and the game could go on without him. While that is true, there are some entries that show he has a much greater importance. Some include him being another option for the Occurias' goals instead of Ashe, and him preventing Ashe being the main villain. Which leads to...

    2. Ashe being the villain, or at least a potential villain. Basically, had she done some things differently, she would be the stereotypical villain in a fantasy RPG.

    3. Events in the game may not be as epic as other FF games, but their actions had the same effect in a more subtle way.
     
    Napoléon likes this.
  2. Jan 29, 2011 #2
    Epic Kirby

    Epic Kirby New Member

    I was one of those FF12 haters, Vaan did seem a bit pointless but I never saw it like that. Makes me want to play the game again :p. FF12 did gets its own DS sequel so I guess it wasn't that bad.

    I think this is one of those games you hate first time but when you reply them you're like "Oh!"
     
  3. Jan 29, 2011 #3
    Moogle

    Moogle Well-Known Member

    I personally loved it from the very first moment I got to rent it to the last time I played my purchased copy. This only heightens my pride in playing the game. Now if only my PS3 were compatible. . .
     
  4. Jan 30, 2011 #4
    Napoléon

    Napoléon Kuroko Fangirl

    You're a life saver, my laptop might have overheated from visiting that website >.<

    I myself like Requiem loved Final Fantasy XII from the beginning. Vaan and Balthier were my two favourites, but now I feel quite happy to know that Vaan was truly as important like I thought he was. Also, I had never considered it before but Ashe was the perfect candidate for becoming a FF villain...
     
  5. Jan 30, 2011 #5
    ADogX

    ADogX R.I.P. Captain Unohana

    i dont know why people didn't like Vaan. without him,as i see it,the game would suck
     
  6. Jan 30, 2011 #6
    Goldfish

    Goldfish Cats in the Cradle

    ^
    Because most see Vaan as a regular street rat who (like everybody else) was effected by the war and therefore had no special unique reason to help out Ashe and co. He joined for the sake of joining and could have easily been replaced or been left out. But adding the fact for the Ocuuria's second candidate, or changing Ashe's way he may have held up his importance as a role for the team.n
    This thread makes me want to replay it now.
     
  7. Feb 16, 2011 #7
    Kitty

    Kitty I Survived The BG Massacre Staff Member Administrator

    I dunno how I managed to overlook this thread. >_<

    I think the TV Tropes page brought up some good points about Vaan, though to be honest I could still do without him. In general, I still feel like he was just kind of there.

    I love the idea of Ashe as a villain. I almost wish it'd ended up that way. It brings me to mind of the idea of VIII's Rinoa becoming Ultimecia, except better. I guess I never had any doubts that Ashe would choose to do things right; it never occurred to me that she really could be a villain until now.

    And lastly, the paragraph ending with "After all, good and evil are sometimes just a matter of perspective" made a lot of sense to me, and was something I'd picked up on while playing the game. (I don't want to post it because it is full of spoilers and I don't want some noob who hasn't played XII yet to get pissy). XII is different because there is so much greyness in the story- people aren't really just good or evil here. Most of the time, I like that sort of thing. In this case, it does make it a little harder for me to really get behind the protagonists. In VI, in VII, you could really hate the antagonists and you wanted to defeat them. Here, I never really felt like I needed to fight. I just did it because that was where the story took me.

    Same here.
     
  8. Feb 16, 2011 #8
    EtherealSummoner

    EtherealSummoner Lamentations 3:22-26

    I never was a Vaan hater. It was fun playing as him and to me, I thought that he, too, is still a main character. We are seeing things from his perspective. Vaan had an important part since he really wanted to get back at the Empire and was the leader of the kids to steal from the soldiers. Then comes Basch and say "The Fates must have fated us so to meet." to meet or whatever. It might be the Occurias. Vaan was needed. As for Penelo... she just ended up involved in something that she shouldn't have but she wanted to stay with Vaan to keep him in check.

    -__- I am still trying to defeat Yiazmat (GODDAMMIT!!! WHY IN THE WORLD IS HE SO HARD?!!!!!!!!) so I would be replaying FF12 anyways. Anyways...

    I never did see any real "Antagonists". To me, there were so many sides. Even if Ashe would use the Sun Cryst (Her, Fran, Vaan and Larsa are my favorites), I still wouldn't even think of Ashe as a villain. To me, she would become a Dynast-Queen in the Occurias' eyes and created her own shards but her friends would end up a little bit upset at her decision. Still, she would have the wish that she wanted but she would also have to think about the losses that she had brought such as other people's losses. Besides, the destruction of Nabudis and Landis should have been enough but the destruction of another continent might just end up bringing more destruction.

    Ashe wanted to save her kingdom; Vayne wanted war but in a different perspective. Ashe wanted to talk to Gramis for peace; Vayne killed his father for war and to gain power and to dismiss the Senate. Ashe wanted to use the shards to resist and fight back against the Empire; Vayne wanted the shards to try and smash the Rozarrian Empire completely through Bahamut. Ashe just wanted to reclaim her throne; Vayne saw himself as a new Dynast-King as he fused with Venat to become the Undying.

    To me, I saw Vayne with some more antagonistic views but he only thought that he was doing something for good when it is actually is not. OH YEA! Let me throw in Venat! Cannot forget about him!

    Venat is a god. Whoo hoo. Big deal. he rebelled against his brethren and sisters. Wow. He's supposed to be the new Satan but is actually the Jesus. In my eyes, you can actually understand from his point of view. The Occurias wanted to have control over Ivalice forever through the stones and their children/Espers. And then Blah blah blah blah blah through the bestiaries and then we realized that Venat made a plan with everything and decided to create manufacted nethicite with his best friend, Cid.

    NOW THE OCCURIAS ARE LIMITED! Occurias decided to manipulate (Hello? Venat sure did not manipulate. Why you cannot be like him?) Ashe. Ashe is trying to make her way through as she is in a tug of war with her friends and the Occurias. Venat is still planning as to how to get the Sun-Cryst destroyed. He had Cid to lie to Ashe that he would await in Giruvegan and then they participate battle at the Pharos and tada! Venat achieved his mission...well... Reddas destroyed it for Ashe so if Ashe destroyed it, Ashe would have been dead and Vayne would have continued his attacks. Venat did some more predicaments and decided to give up his life, fuse with Vayne and have the two of them to die together and there you go! IVALICE HAVE THEIR FREE WILL! WHOO HOO!

    Where am I am going with this? Venat is not all so antagonist that we all thought that he should be. Ashe was being used as a tool without even knowing but she decided to deny the Occurias. Ashe's desire of revenge may have been "antagonal" but for a greater good, I don't think that she is an antagonist. So why should we label Cid, Vayne and Venat as villains when we should just assume that the ones who are actually the big villains are the Occurias themselves?
     
  9. Feb 16, 2011 #9
    Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    That's because when you think about it, the only real 'bad' guys are the Occuria. If anything, Vayne's actions would be leaning more towards good.

    Looking at Summoner's post above me, I have to disagree with what he said about Vayne. He didn't really want war, or to destroy the senate's power or anything. From what I saw, all he wanted to do was free Ivalice from the grasp of the Occuria. While he went about in ways that may be viewed as bad, I believe it is a good thing to want to put fate in our own hands. True, he probably would've used the Bahamut against Rozarria, but if anything that was just an add-on to his true plan.

    She had the potential to be a villain. Had things gone differently, she might have become a villain. If anything, that fate that Basch talks about is what kept her as one of the 'good' guys.
     

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