christian or catholic

First (in response to your insult), I'd like to point out that I've never stated what my beliefs are... But in either case, your arguments certainly don't contradict the fact that it may exist.

The problem with your logic is that you're assuming you've figured it all out (you're big on this philosophy...I could never understand why, but we got into a pretty heated discussion in the past). Assumed truth, whether in philosophy or mathematics, is always a big red flag...

I still can't see why anyone would think that they, of all people, are special, and somehow the smartest individual, who figured everything out.

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The notion of purgatory predates the idea of 'indulgences.' Heck, even the idea of indulgences predate the church's corrupted 'selling' of indulgences (which is what you're referring to). People in power abuse what they can to get ahead.

I mean, people abuse the health care system all the time...does that mean the health care system does not exist? For someone as smart as you Mythril Roxas, I'd have guessed you'd have realized that logic is faulty.

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Purgatory (prior to the corrupt selling of indulgences) stems from the interpretation of the following biblical passage: (it's a bit long, but all of it is relevant)

"...for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that there is, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay or straw, the work of each one will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire [itself] will test the quality of each one's work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only through fire." (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

See, a Catholic interprets this quite literally, to mean 'some temporary fires' which will result in someone's salvation ('purgatory') while a Christian believes this fire is Judgment Day...and a person's works (as opposed to their being itself) are what is destroyed.

Who is right? How do we interpret the passage correctly? Because the fact that someone abused one belief or the other is not proof that it is the wrong interpretation...that is bad logic (no other way around it). Infact, many others have abused other religions for personal gain...I don't think this is a contested idea.

I'll quote you directly: "The Church used it to scare people..." That does not mean they created it for the purposes of scaring people. It was something that was there, and they bent it to their whims to make money. Sure, there was corruption...I'm not arguing there.

Suppose I want an African slave...and I fool him into thinking "God won't love you unless you work for me." So he does...and I have wrongfully, and corruptly, tricked this man. Does it discredit God? Suppose the entire Church of Mike (haha), consisting of 100,000 members does this exact thing. Is God discreditted?

No...it means I've done a bad thing.

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The only remaining point is kirairiato's (which you have reiterated). And that, if Jesus died for all of our sins, why should there be a purgatory?

Purgatory may be figurative. It may be a place of personal struggle while one is still alive. It may be a place of literal pain, 'preparing' one for heaven so to speak.

Perhaps Christ didn't die for all our sins. Maybe only some (like the baptists believe for instance). Perhaps He died to open the Gates of Heaven, in a literal way. Perhaps not.

Who is right? Your axiom set, your gut instincts tell YOU and only you, what the right path is. You may think it's a bunch of idiocy, but that doesn't mean someone who disagrees hasn't thought about the issue, and reasoned through their beliefs.

Let your bias decide...but given that I do believe in God (that much I have said), it's not unjust to believe in God's Mercy. Whether that is a literal place, or that purgatory is just a metaphor, your conclusion is faulty.

Ad Hominem (attacking the poster as opposed to the content) posts hold no relevance here. Regardless of one's beliefs, that's just plain rude...I'm smart enough to know my own bias does not constitute a proof...and neither does yours:

"The More You Learn, the More You Realize You Don't Know."

Given your smug answers ("Purgatory doesn't exist...just because." , "Because someone did something bad.")... I'm certain I've done more reflection in regards to this matter than you. So I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't make rude remarks, particularly when I haven't even told you what I believe.

The fact that I'm knowledgeable, (I was inder the impression I was talking about other types of Christianity, as opposed to just Catholicism), says nothing about my beliefs...that's bad logic too. You guess you were wrong all right...you were wrong big time.

 

O.O.O Whoa. Um... I'm speechless Mike...

 

look at the different between mine and your quote
you have alernated or change my sentences....
i never did and insult you catholics...

if i did sorry

 

see you have changed many or some words in the paragraph

 

*facepalm*

I've quoted Mythril_Roxas...not Kirairiato. That entire post was responding to someone else (who posted right after you...go look...now)...that's why I quoted his post, and not yours. He happened to raise one argument that you also did, so I made note of the fact that one's beliefs dictate whether or not that argument makes sense, and that two peoples' beliefs need not be compatible...there's not much else to it.

(Why on earth would I completely modify your post, then take offense to that, and then argue against it?)

 

Christian is a broad umbrella term for all those who beleive in Jesus Christ. The correct title for this should be protestant or chathlic. Not sure if that has been said but just thought i would point it out.

 

The problem with "Protestant" is that not all Christians would refer to themselves as protestant (even though the Protestant Movement was the first instance of 'non-Catholic/Orthodox' Christians).

I suggested the terminology "Catholic or reformed-Christian"