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Can Black People Be Racist?

Discussion in 'Mature Discussion' started by Angel, May 18, 2016.

  1. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    I've been hearing this lately. That black people can't be racist! From TV shows like Black-ish, and Dear White People. The argument is black people can't be racist because racism is a system of disadvantages due to race since blacks can't benefit from such a system; they can't be racist.

    What do you guys think?!
     
  2. Kitty

    Kitty I Survived The BG Massacre Staff Member Administrator

    As a white girl, I won't pretend I know what it's like to be a racial minority. However, it's my opinion that anyone can hate anyone else, and I think misconceptions and prejudices based on racial stereotypes are common, no matter what your own race may be. Frankly, I think we're all shitheads to each other in some way or another.

    The Free Dictionary defines racism as:

    A minority could most definitely still feel like their race is superior to another. Hell, you can even find people racist towards their own race. Just because someone is downtrodden doesn't mean that they ally with or support other groups who are also kept down.
     
  3. NeRo

    NeRo Your Supreme Lord And Savior Staff Member Administrator

    As a black guy, the short answer is yes. I know some old black people that are REALLY racist against White people mainly and indifferent on other races like asian and latin decent. I've dealt with racism torwards me first hand sadly a lot so it made it difficult for me to look at things without being angry sometimes.

    I guess because of how society is structured and black people are always on the cutting board i guess its hard for them to be seen as racist? idk it's hard to explain but yes , yea they can be racist. though i've never seen any extreme form of racism like i've seen in other races mainly white.

    No offfense to anyone.

    PS dear white people is amazing. so is " DOPE"
     
  4. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    As Vox said, the short answer is yes. The notion that a group of people cannot be something bad for whatever reason someone may want to give is absurd. By making such a claim you are justifying the hate those people may have for another group of people.

    As for why this odd idea is circulating these days, it is because of white guilt. I guess somehow some people see this as being in support of minorities. I dunno.
     
    Kitty likes this.
  5. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    I honestly did not know the answer when posting this, but I think it's likely that black people can't be racist or any minorities for that matter where (generally) white people are predominant. Because racism is more complex than simple individuals. In this country, when we say, we fight against racism. What do we mean? The racism that black people commit or Asians. Absolutely not. The racism of slavery. The racism of segregation. Against an unfair white society. So yeah, the way racism has always been used does suggest that black people can't be racist. That racism is institutionalized.
     
  6. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    The problem with your argument is it doesn't hold up in any situation. Understand that to begin with you are focused entirely on America and nowhere else in the world. That is the very first flaw when you make the claim that black people can't be racist. For such a claim to be true it has to hold true in every situation. Given that it does not hold true in every case it logically follows that the claim cannot be true.

    While I'm about to talk about more than the claim itself, the unspoken continuation of the claim that black people can't be racist is that only white people can be racist. This too does not hold true in every situation, especially using the example given in separate situations. In China, white people are a minority. Therefore if we were to apply the explanation (for black people being unable to be racist) to China, then that means in China Chinese people can be racist and white people cannot. In African countries where black people are a majority and white people are a minority, black people can be racist and white people cannot. But wait! If black people can't be racist and yet the very example for black people being incapable of racism can make black people racist in different situations, then logically black people can be racist.
     
  7. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    Dude, seriously whether the situation holds in one case and not the other, isn't the issue. And if your focus is to correct something so trivial, then you're just as bad as everyone else. It's this type of bull that distracts from the issue. It's not meant to apply everywhere, The people who say it don't live everywhere, so why should it apply everywhere. Because it's not meant to. Why folks got to be so literal and look only at the surface. If I go into a room and say "no one's here" and five people are in the room. Does it mean actually no one's there. Absolutely not, it just means no one that I know is there or not a lot of people are there. When they say "black people can't be racist", they are talking about America. (Something that is implied) -Facepalm-

    --------------------------------------------------------​

    Racism is alive and well! These court cases prove my point that racism is within our system. That it's associated with power. Minorities don't benefit from such a system so can't be racist! Slavery, Segregation, and Jim Crow were all systems of racism. They weren't individual and never were. It's a social thing, and I'm sure everyone can agree that those three things are indeed racism and are systems or part of one! Below are clips of racism in our legislation.

     
    NeRo likes this.
  8. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    Because the people who peddle this crap are the same people who say humans should get along globally and not hate each other based on where we're from. Because when people make blanket statements there is an implication that it implies every person underneath that blanket globally. More than just that, unfortunately it is more than something so trivial. When people say "black people can't be racist" they are justifying hateful actions from black people. Whether your like it or not, racism is viewed in the country as one of the worst things somebody can be (Which that idea alone is not necessarily a bad thing). Unfortunately though, racism is viewed as being worse than being a bigot. So if some white person said "All blacks are trash and should be killed" and is viewed as a racist while some black person who said "All whites are trash and should be killed" is only viewed as a bigot and not a racist, then the white person is unjustifiably viewed as a worse person than the black person.

    I'm not disagreeing with you that these are cases of racism. Racism is both a social thing and an individual thing. I've been arguing towards the individual thing so much because you're dropping it entirely for the social aspect.

    The more I think about it the more I see where I'm going wrong in these arguments between us (Don't get your hopes up though, this statement probably isn't going where you think it is). I've been arguing against your idea because the people who promote these ideas have other ideas to them and I have been grouping in their ideass with your argument regardless if you actually agree with those ideas. As for why I do that, it is because unfortunately every person I've seen with your idea has these other ideas grouped in with them and it is a really bad sign.
     
  9. EtherealSummoner

    EtherealSummoner Lamentations 3:22-26

    My grandma on my daddy's side is racist against whites and she always talk about being a Muslim and the like. I even consider Black Hebrewlites racists (TO those who are, no offense. My opinion). Feels like pure ignorance whenever I hear them talk. I feel embarrass when people use the Bible to back up their claims to feel superior over another race or to put blame on the race and I say to myself "Do you even read?"
     
  10. Nova

    Nova A Ghost Staff Member Administrator



    Saw this a while ago and thought it was relevant to this topic. It pretty much says all of my opinion on this topic.
    Except the color blind bit. I don't want to be color blind. I think our differences should be celebrated not ignored.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
  11. EtherealSummoner

    EtherealSummoner Lamentations 3:22-26

    ... Black people racist to themselves.... that's another failure every time I think about it... @Vox our race is jacked up.

     
    Ezol likes this.
  12. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    -Facepalm- You guys think black people can be racist but they can't.

    Racism isn't just some randos (random people) going around insulting and killing people based on race. It's organized, and it's a repeated pattern. Not only that but Racism keeps the big man on top (Whites) and the little man on bottom (Minorities). That's simple history! You guys are simply saying. All you need to be racist. Is to think one race is better than the other. You're looking at it the wrong way! As a society, we have to look at how racial groups interact with one another. We can't solve anything by looking at one person's action. We can't learn anything by listening to one person's experience. We can't fixed everyone's problem by fixing just one person's view on race. Therefore, racism isn't just one guy/gal's problem. Racism is all of our problems. So doesn't it make sense, that in order to solve a social issue that we have to look at social groups, in this case, racial groups and how they interact with one another. And when we do that, don't we see a pattern of white privileges and oppressed minorities. Don't we see Whites maintaining their status and power by stepping on the backs of Blacks by denying jobs and opportunities. How does addressing race-base discrimination against whites help black or Latinos from being denied jobs and statuses? How does addressing a black man murdering a white man because of the color of his skin, help the unfair treatment of minorities? It doesn't! There is a constant pattern of Whites oppressing minorities and not only that, but its a learned behaviour reinforced by society's favoritism of whites over minorities. There are laws constantly undermining minorities so they can't do shit about it or else they would. One black man in the white house can't undo centuries of racism. It won't undo the disproportionate ratio of power. This is a numbers game and if we don't address racism where it belongs then minorities are skewed, period.

    Guys get educated! I know you think you guys are right, but do some research! If racism was such a simple definition and concept, don't you think we would have found a fix by now! Ask yourself if it was as simple as you think it is, why isn't there a fix? Look up "Sociology of Racism" and you'll see that racism isn't something so simple.

    So no, @EtherealSummoner, your daddy's side is prejudice not racist.
     
  13. Kitty

    Kitty I Survived The BG Massacre Staff Member Administrator

    Institutional racism exists, and in the US, has a history of favoring whites over blacks. But if demographics had been reversed, and black people were, and always had been, the majority, do you really think we'd currently be living in a utopia where everyone was treated equally? Give me a break. The majority is always going to oppress the minority because people are shitty and selfish and want to stay on top. It doesn't matter which race is which or in which country we live. Everyone can hate, and every race can be racist- some just don't have the institutionalized power to use that racism to impact other lives.

    So unless you think black people are all Jesus, who would never take advantage of power like the awful whites do, the answer to the thread's question "Can black people be racist?" should be yes.
     
    Desert Warrior likes this.
  14. EtherealSummoner

    EtherealSummoner Lamentations 3:22-26

    @Angel my dear, racism has many faces. Racism is more than the political aspect from which you are basing on in terms of white against black. Racism can stem even more into the emotional and, as you said, being trained and taught, a learned aspect. As @Kitty said, some do not have that influence to make the impact to be racist; doesn't mean it is not racism at all. We all understand about racism in terms of white over other races but that does not equate to us overlooking one race doing the same to others. It's like saying the Germans wasn't prejudiced and racist against Jews (And Germans during WW2 even considered blacks inferior at that time). Only considering racism one-sided in terms of history and social aspect is only making people oblivious to the deeper roots of it.
     
  15. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    That's true, but so what?! Why bring up some hypothetical scenario. If blacks were the majority and oppressed whites than yes ( which I'm sure they would if they had the power). Whites would be subject to racism. But who cares about some fan-fiction scenario that doesn't address the current situation we are in! Why bring up something that isn't the case?! I heard a women say if "Women were as strong as men, there would be no rape, because they could fight back". Well duh. Some make believe isn't worth discussing. So you shouldn't have brought it up! No one's denying that whoever the majority is, will want to remain on top. The reality of it, is, white people are on top! That was just disappointing to read!

    That's why you're part of the problem. You want to generalize everyone and disregard history and the current system. It does matter what race and what country. Because we all aren't treated equal. A Black guys actions against a white man is a punch up while vice-versa it would be punch down. By not making a distinction that a white man's racist antics has more weigh and continues the cycle of power and white privileges is ignoring the issue.

    Racism isn't about any few or many black people who have power and make race-base discrimination. It's about the systematic oppression of an entire race and the privileges granted to another. Saying black people can be racist, suggest some type of majority that black people just don't have or oppressiong other races with power they obviously don't have. Saying black people can be racist suggest black people are playing on an even playing field as white people which they aren't. So the answer would be 'no'. They can't be racist. And no one said black folks are saints. Sure they can discriminate on the basis of race, but that doesn't make them racist.

    Didn't say political, said societal. And didn't merely say Black vs. White, said minorities, just used Black vs White as an example. Lastly, racism having many faces. Doesn't tell me squat.

    Summoner what are you talking about that made no sense whatsoever!

    Are Germans not considered white? Anyway, Hitler created a system where Germans oppressed other races (aka racism). I don't see how that disapproves anything. The social construct of race and the systems of other countries aren't comparable to the United States, so why compare the two is beyond me.
     
  16. EtherealSummoner

    EtherealSummoner Lamentations 3:22-26

    Hattred can be anything and racism is one form of hate mixed with arrogance and terrible pride which shouldn't be tolerated in the first place.

    If you are favoring one race over another and to use things such as the law, social standing, religion, and the like to justify it, it can still become racism.
    I was thinking in terms of nationality.

    Using religion in order to justify racism is one way Angel without having the institutionalized power and influence to make an impact. Black Hebrewlites are a very fine example of racism. Calling people "White Devils" and using religion to justify feelings of superiority over whites is wrong and this is not from a social standpoint. In addition, there are different sects within the Black Hebrewlites who similarly agree on this. To deny this and say it is not racism is birthing ignorance.

    The topic of this thread is if blacks (In all of their race, nationality, etc) can be a racist. If the person is using anything in terms of religion, social standing, emotion, whatever the case may be to justify superiority over another, it is racism and blacks did do this. We can all agree about racism in the system and it can be used against minorities but only abiding by that and not seeing racism through other means as to what it is is not worth it. Can African Americans be racist in America: Yes. Can they be racist outside of America: Yes. You cannot narrow racism to only the social system. That's asking people to clearly be unaware and to only look on the surface.
     
  17. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    Saying everyone can be racist is to say all racism is equal when it's not. Which is more offensive, when a black man says "cracker" to a white man or when a white man says "nigger" to a black man. You probably realized that the latter is more offensive. Why do you think that? Because you're probably realizing what racism actually is. The connotation that the n-word has. It has 600 years of black folks being traded as cattle, dehumanized, raped, beaten. Even the word cracker, insinuates how whites cracked the whip. Not making a distinction between such systematic racism and how society reinforces these ideas is true ignorance. Black folks don't contribute to this system of oppression. Therefore, we should make a clear distinction. If their actions had an equal impact as their white counterparts that would be a different story. But it doesn't.

    I'm glad racism is such a broad category of emotions that considers that we are all treated equal and live in an equal opportunity society.

    You just described racism, more or less. Racism has the backing of a system and pattern of history.

    Why bring nationality to a race fight. If you were to give an example of racism shouldn't you give an example of a race.

    You do know that Christianity, Judaism, Catholicism, etc are organized religions, right? In other words, institutions. I don't want to give a history lesson on how religion was incorporated within many countries state of government, because I'd like to stay within the context of America. But yeah, religion did / does have institutional power under whatever context of country and time period, it is / was in.

    That would make them prejudice, which in this case, bad.

    It isn't racism. It's horribly racially motivated. It's prejudice. But not racist. Just because race is involved doesn't make it racist.
     
    Ezol likes this.
  18. Nova

    Nova A Ghost Staff Member Administrator

    Not writing a lot because I'm on my phone. But it sounds a lot to me like "oppression" and "racism" are getting mixed up here.
    Opression is one way to practice racism, and it's crappy. No one is denying that. But like not all fruit is apples, not all racism is oppression.
    Is it likely for blacks to oppress people in this country? No. But that does not mean that black people can not be racist. I hate to be "white guy number six million" to use the dictionary argument but the very definition of racism is not "prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control" That is oppression.
    And to say that white people are the only ones to have oppressed others based on their skin color through all of history is ignorant.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  19. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    Psst... Don't go with a definition argument. I tried that and all I got were arguments that definitions change (Which I don't disagree with) and that the definition of racism has changed (Even though the number of people who use Angel's definition of racism are in the minority and I personally am hard pressed to consider accepted definitions of things to be determined based on a minority of a population).
     
    Angel likes this.
  20. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    @Desert Warrior I don't know if that's true, but I hear white people saying black people can't be racist and I see them writing books on it too. So if it's just minorities, I really don't know.

    Why are we talking about this. I'm not talking about any ole oppression. I'm talking specifically about oppression that whites have been dealing out since the inception of this country. I don't need people to generalize a specific issue that I'm addressing. I'm not talking about oppressing pregnant women, not talking about oppressing minors or Jews. I'm specifically talking about minorities, specifically blacks. That's peoples' problem. If I'm addressing the issue of cancer. Why would you tell me. All diseases aren't cancer. That's just contributing to the ignorance and avoidance of the issue. I know all oppression isn't racism but I'm not talking about all oppression just one specific oppression. Gosh.

    But in fact the way the word racism is used to describe actual racism often refers to prolonged cruelty of whites (majority) against blacks, and some type of power and privilege. If you give me examples of racism, you'll see that it highlights all of the above. A dictionary argument isn't a point. @Desert Warrior has already explained it. The dictionary doesn't tell us how words are used or the negative connotation attached to them. They changed, they are constantly changing, and just because a committee puts it into writing doesn't make it so. I can just as well say the sociological definition of racism says racism is a system in which privileges are given to the majority and minorities are disadvantaged. Now, what did that solve? Absolutely nothing.

    Not saying that at all. White people don't have it as bad. White people can be subject to prejudice, they can be discriminated against because of the color of their skin. They can be oppressed. These are all bad things, for sure. But this isn't racism. Because we aren't equal. Those things don't affect the white man's status in society. This doesn't continue some already established cycle of discrimination and advantages the whites dish out and benefit from. A white man can be discriminated against but he'll still benefit from white privileges. What you fail to realize is, minorities are disadvantaged. Therefore, minorities racially motivated antics don't yield the same weight as their white counterparts.
     

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