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Time Travel Explained

Discussion in 'General Kingdom Hearts' started by Elfdemon, Feb 29, 2016.

  1. Elfdemon

    Elfdemon Member

    I will explain time travel in Kingdom Hearts and how it works for those of you who don't quite understand it, or don't understand it at all. I hope this helps anyone who was confused with how it was explained in Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance.

    (This is a part of my "Explained" series of posts. To view my "Heartless, Nobodies, Unversed, and Dream Eaters Explained" post, click here, to view my "The Braig/Xigbar Situation Explained" post, click here, and to view my "The Realm of Sleep Explained" post, click here.)

    What is time travel in the Kingdom Hearts universe? Well, it's like time travel from any other game, movie, or show. It's where you leave your present-time and move either backwards or forwards to a different time.

    How does somebody time travel in the Kingdom Hearts universe? First, you must abandon your body and become just a heart. One way to become just a heart is to extract your heart with a Keyblade. Another method would be to become a Heartless, since Heartless are technically just corrupted hearts. Once you become just a heart, then you have the ability to move through time.

    Becoming just a heart also gives all versions of yourself from across time the ability to time travel. But, they're not actually able to do so without assistance from someone who actually has a time travel power. Just because you have the ability to travel through time, doesn't mean you're actually able to do so. You can only time travel if you are just a heart, or if you have the time travel ability plus assistance. I will elaborate what I mean by "assistance" later in this post.

    What are the laws of time travel in the Kingdom Hearts universe? You are only able to travel through time if there is a version of yourself present at the time you want to travel to. Also, you cannot change what is destined to happen. All that really means though is that you cannot change the future, because everything is already set in stone. Once you return back to your respective time, you will forget everything that has happened during your experience time traveling. However, these memories and experiences will be etched into your heart and could influence your decisions and the paths you take.

    Since you lose your memories after you get back to your respective time, there would be no point in traveling to the future to try and find out what happens.

    That is what we know so far about time travel in the Kingdom Hearts universe. Now, I will explain various characters' involvements with time travel.

    Terra-Xehanort Terra-Xehanort is Terra's body taken over by Master Xehanort. He apprentices under Ansem the Wise so he can further study the darkness and get access to things that could potentially help him further gain powers of the darkness. He steals Ansem's name and identity, then splits himself into a Heartless and a Nobody. His Heartless is known as the Robed Figure, and his Nobody is known as Xemnas.

    Robed Figure / Ansem, Seeker of Darkness The Robed Figure is Apprentice Xehanort's Heartless, as stated above. Since he is technically just a heart since he is a Heartless, he is able to travel through time. He goes back in time to Destiny Islands, where he meets a young version of himself. Now that Xehanort is just a heart, all versions of Xehanort throughout time have the ability to move through time. Not without assistance though of course. The Robed Figure gives/shares his time travel powers that he has from being just a heart to this Young Xehanort. Now, this Young Xehanort is able to time travel without becoming just a heart and without assistance. The Robed Figure then goes back to his own time (during the first Kingdom Hearts) and places himself on Destiny Islands. He marks the time traveling Sora with the Recusant's Sigil.

    The Robed Figure later possesses Riku and sort of molds/forms Riku's body into a body that's more to his likeness. Bodies are just as malleable as hearts. This amalgamate is known as Ansem, Seeker of Darkness.

    Young Xehanort As explained above, Young Xehanort, and all other versions of Xehanort, now have the ability to move through time. And Young Xehanort is able to do this without assistance as if he was just a heart, because the Robed Figure shared/gave him some of his powers. He then goes through time and brings with him various versions of himself and some followers/vessels who have been loyal to him before. He gathers 5 versions of himself and brings them to the present-day. Those people are Terra-Xehanort, Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, Xemnas, Vanitas, and Riku Replica. These are all people who are deceased in the present-time.

    Terra-Xehanort, Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, and Xemnas have the ability to move through time, because Xehanort became just a heart somewhere along his timeline (when he became a Heartless/the Robed Figure). They aren't actually able to do so though without assistance from someone who actually has a time travel power. Young Xehanort is their assistance, since he has an actual time travel power that he got from the Robed Figure.

    If someone has never became just a heart somewhere along their timeline, then they can't move through time even with assistance.

    Vanitas' and Riku Replica's hearts were also taken from the past by Young Xehanort, therefore giving them the ability to move through time due to being just hearts.

    Young Xehanort time travels to Destiny Islands during the first Kingdom Hearts. He is able to do this because the Robed Figure placed himself there. He follows Sora and Riku into the realm of sleep. Now that Sora is marked with the Recusant's Sigil and now that Young Xehanort is in the same time period as Sora, Young Xehanort is able to teleport to wherever Sora is and keep tabs on him.

    Master Xehanort Master Xehanort is the one who took over Terra's body, as explained above. He has returned to the present-day because Xemnas and Ansem, Seeker of Darkness have been destroyed, which are his Nobody and Heartless. Once someone's Nobody and Heartless are destroyed, the original person is revived. Since he was Terra-Xehanort/Apprentice Xehanort when he split himself into a Heartless and a Nobody, he was recompleted alongside Terra.

    Master Xehanort gathers with Young Xehanort, the 5 people that Young Xehanort had gathered, and the 5 other members who were turned back into being Nobodies again after being recompleted in order to be more suitable vessels (Xigbar, Saïx, Marluxia, Larxene, and Luxord.)

    Ansem, Seeker of Darkness (pt.II) Sora has destroyed him. Young Xehanort brings him back to the present-day.

    Xemnas Xemnas is the Nobody of Terra-Xehanort. He was destroyed by Sora. He has now been brought back to the present-day by Young Xehanort.

    Vanitas Vanitas is the darkness half of Ventus' heart given humanoid form. He was destroyed by Ventus, and returned to him. He has now been brought back to the present-day by Young Xehanort.

    Riku Replica / Dark Riku Riku Replica is a Replica of Riku created by Vexen from data of Riku. He was destroyed by Riku, and his broken heart and mind went to the Realm of Darkness. He has now been brought back to the present-day by Young Xehanort, but it's a version of him from shortly after he was created and before he gained any real memories and experiences of his own yet.

    Xion Xion is an imperfect Replica of Roxas created by Vexen who's identity was formed out of Sora's leaked memories of Kairi. She was destroyed by Roxas and her heart was absorbed into him. She has now been brought back to the present-day by Young Xehanort, but it's a version of her from shortly after she was created and before she gained any real memories and experiences of her own yet.

    Extra Info Xehanort's plan has been to gather 13 vessels that all would bear a piece of his heart inside of them. This was Xemnas' plan with Organization XIII, but a few of the members he had gathered were inadequate. This is what lead to the various new people that Young Xehanort had been gathering. He gathered 5 people and along with himself, Master Xehanort, and the 5 others from the previous Organization who had been turned back into Nobodies again after being recompleted, that makes 12 people. Their original planned 13th member was Riku, but he became immune to the darkness, so he was of no use to them, then they chose Roxas, but he became too aware of himself and returned to Sora. Now, they moved down the list to Sora. They were able to capture him, but he had been saved. And then, they ran out of time and those who were from the past had to return to their own time and those who were from the present-day teleported away.

    In Kingdom Hearts III, Young Xehanort time travels once more to our present-day and gathers the same 5 members he had gathered before from across time. But, this time, their hearts are put into Replica bodies in order to stay physically in the present-time and avoid having a time limit. Young Xehanort's heart goes into a Replica this time as well.

    And after doing some experimenting, they choose Xion as their 13th member.

    Also, when someone from another time gets destroyed, they just get sent back to their own time.

    Sora and Riku In the beginning of Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance, Sora and Riku traveled back in time to the day Destiny Islands fell to darkness. They had the ability to move through time because both of them have become just hearts at one point in the first Kingdom Hearts. Sora became just a heart/a Heartless when he stabbed himself with the Keyblade of Heart, and Riku became just a heart when his heart was sort of kicked out of his body into the Realm of Darkness when he was possessed by Ansem, Seeker of Darkness. This caused all versions of Sora and Riku from throughout time to gain the ability to time travel. But, they weren't able to do so without assistance, so Yen Sid assisted them. Yen Sid used magic to send them back in time, which is a different method of time travel than Xehanort's method. Instead of becoming just a heart and going back in time to give a version of themself the time travel power in order to assist other versions of themself through time, Yen Sid just assisted them by using time travel magic to send them back in time. Characters like Yen Sid and Merlin have time magic. But, Yen Sid's time travel magic still follows the rules of time travel that this post has been explaining. He could only send Sora and Riku back in time to a point in time where versions of them existed/were present.

    Sora and Riku are younger in Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance simply because of Yen Sid's magic as well. He used his magic to make them younger again in order to sort of help with the whole starting over from scratch for the Mark of Mastery exam thing. They didn't inhabit their younger bodies contrary to popular belief. They didn't need to become just hearts in order to time travel, because they had the time travel ability plus assistance. Them becoming just hearts would've been a big mess as well. They would've turned into Heartless/Nobodies.

    Timeless River Merlin used his time magic to take Sora, Donald, and Goofy back to Timeless River. It's different from Xehanort's method of time travel and it's even different from Yen Sid's magical method of time travel. It bypasses all time travel laws.

    I hope this helped anybody and I hope it cleared up confusion that any of you had :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  2. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    I find the concept of time travel in KH to be poorly implemented as well as the sleeping worlds.

    It makes no sense story-wise and even the rules of time travel are contradicting.
     
  3. Elfdemon

    Elfdemon Member

    I always see people say that it's contradicting. What's contradicting about it?
     
  4. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    More paradox and loop holes than contradicting. If Ansem SoD went back in time to visit Young Xehanort then Young Xehanort sought off the island because it was etched into his heart, then who etched Ansem SoD's heart and then who etched his heart and there lies our conundrum.

    Then the whole, you can't change events destined to occur. How does one know that an event is destined to occur. Is etching one's own heart destiny? Where is the line between destiny and choices?

    How can time travel be passed on from one person to the next? Shouldn't the progenitor only have the power?

    Why didn't Sora time travel? He was just a heart.

    It's all very stupid if you ask me.
     
  5. Elfdemon

    Elfdemon Member

    Not really quite sure the answer to the first couple questions. I definitely think we don't know that much about time travel at the current moment and hopefully it's explained more in a future game.

    As for the "How can time travel be passed on from one person to the next?" question, the ability to time travel was passed on to Young Xehanort the moment that the Robed Figure time traveled. The Robed Figure and Young Xehanort are the same person and have the same heart, so they can both time travel.

    "Why didn't Sora time travel? He was just a heart." Do you mean in the first Kingdom Hearts? If so, it's simply because he didn't know he could time travel. Young Xehanort didn't know he could time travel either until the Robed Figure told him.

    I think KH's time travel concept is very intriguing and I think that we have so little information about it at the current moment to truly judge whether it's poorly done or not.
     
  6. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    That's not my point. If the first condition of time travelling is to rid yourself of one's body. Why does the ability to time travel pass to another version of yourself that has a body? Kinda defeats the purpose of losing your body in the first place.
    And Ansem SoD did? How would anyone have knowledge of time travel if they haven't done it before. There's no indication that anyone has ever time travelled.

    If an entire title revolves on the concept of time and time travel and people are still confused. It's safe to say that it's poorly implemented.
     
  7. Elfdemon

    Elfdemon Member

    I don't really see how it defeats the purpose. He traveled in time so that a young version of himself can travel through time. There wouldn't have been any other way for this young version of himself to travel through time if the Robed Figure hadn't traveled through time.

    Yes, he did know. Xehanort is a very wise, intelligent, and informed person. He knows many things about the heart, so I don't think it's a very hard thing to assume that he knows about hearts being able to travel through time as well. The Robed Figure has all of his memories from when he was Xehanort.

    Countless people are confused about the basic plot of just KH1 and KH2. Does that mean they're poorly implemented? No, it doesn't. It just means they haven't dived deeper into the story and lore to figure it out. Also, with each new KH game, comes answers to previously unanswered questions as well as new unanswered questions. We learn something new with each new installment. Time travel is a very young and new concept within the KH lore and still has a lot of breathing room to develop.
     
  8. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    Because of paradoxes. That's not necessarily true that the Robed Figured had to travel time to bestow Young Xehanort with time travel if we consider the original (first) time line then it couldn't have been the case.

    For this whole time travel thing to work. The whole etched thing about the heart shouldn't be rule and passing along the powers of time travel shouldn't be a rule.

    Yeah, from research, but researching the heart doesn't make you stumble upon time travel.

    Probably so, especially since the story has expanded from numerous titles and expanded over a decade without any real progression. The story, plain and simple, isn't well told. And adding in new characters, enemies, and concepts to a story without any real foundation is a mess. If we think about why time travel was included in the story was most likely to bring past characters back, but does time travel fit into the KH universe, not really.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2016
  9. Yacob

    Yacob Banned

    time travel wouldn't seem out of place if you understood the story you were playing. the entire game is a paradox...that's the point of KH.
     
  10. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    The story didn't indicate time travel just time magic. As poor as the story may be, at least the elements which makes Kingdom Hearts, Kingdom Hearts, were consistent. Time travel is just a plot to bring back deceased characters.

    Anywho, your judgement about the story of KH is clearly clouded. I don't think this is a proper topic for you.
     
    Elfdemon likes this.
  11. Yacob

    Yacob Banned

    yea time magic that allows you to time travel, you are a stubborn one. stubborn to a fault lol I guess this makes 2 faults.
     
  12. Elfdemon

    Elfdemon Member

    Yeah, I agree that time travel is out of place. It's definitely just a gimmick in order to bring back deceased villains so you can have one final epic clash with them in KH3. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing though. I think fighting all the previous final bosses and strongest villains in one game truly shows how strong Sora, Riku and the other characters have become, and I think it's a great way to end off a saga. But yeah, I think there might've been an easier way to do this or a better way to explain it all.

    How is it a paradox exactly? Yeah, the KH story can be convoluted or confusing, but I can't really think of anything that's contradicting.
     
  13. Yacob

    Yacob Banned

    "the closer you get to the light, the bigger your shadow"

    "in the deepest darkness, there is always a light"
     
  14. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    @Elfdemon I agree. I can understand bringing back the characters but I just see time travel better implemented in FF rather than KH.

    Did you read this thread? Did @Elfdemon say it was magic or not? No.
     
    Elfdemon likes this.
  15. NeRo

    NeRo Your Supreme Lord And Savior Staff Member Administrator

    I can do it to!

    " The closer you get to the pizza the more you smell cheese"


    "In the coldest freezer there is always ice cream"
     
    Elfdemon likes this.
  16. Yacob

    Yacob Banned

    im confused why it makes a difference if its magic or not. of course its magic how else you gunna time travel?


    how can you have a light in the deepest darkness?
     
  17. Elfdemon

    Elfdemon Member

    Because that's how the Kingdom Hearts universe works. There is light in all hearts (besides Vanitas). Remember, this is a video game, not real life. Also, "the closer you get to the light, the bigger your shadow" isn't a contradiction at all. That's how shadows work.

    The way Yen Sid has Sora and Riku time travel is magic, but the way Xehanort time travels is science.
     
  18. Yacob

    Yacob Banned

    its not physically a contradiction no, but metaphorically it could be. for instance, the closer you get to being good the more bad you become. the shadow did turn into an enemy at this point in time in the dive when this is stated. and ok...so its how the KH universe works, I know. still you asked how its a paradox and that's a paradox plain and simple. this is why im always right because you guys are so stubborn you are just disagreeing because of a bias and not because you actually know what you are talking about. go ahead and deny it but we both know its the truth.
     
  19. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    Corridor of darkness isn't necessarily magic. Star shard isn't exactly magic. The lanes between aren't necessarily magic. Time travel is just a by product of losing your heart. Aka not necessarily magic.
     
  20. Yacob

    Yacob Banned

    science? real science or magic science?
    besides, I never made a distinction, angel did so why the hell you telling me?

    if star shards arnt magic please explain to us how they work...scientifically. or atleast practically.
    if corridors of darkness arnt magic...please explain how they work...scientifically.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2016

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