Mind/Body/Soul/Heart Dicussion

Welp I'm bored, Thanksgiving is drawing to an end and I had (for once in a long while) a fun KH discussion SO! I'm gonna post a bit of a think tank born of that discussion. Is it looking too deep into things? Yes easily but hey deep thinking used to be fun with this series. xD

Spoiler: The Mind & Kingdom Hearts

Something of an old topic I once made but after rereading it I think it’s still valid and honestly the mind is an ambiguous thing within the series.
Many seem confused by it like they are with death or the heart-body-soul trinity.

Soooo hope ya enjoy or at the least read enough to think my younger self was reading way too much into it. haha

So what do we know of the “mind” within KH? Well we know that it is tightly intertwined and a part of the heart itself as well as that, like the heart, it’s largely tied to memory. (another of the heart’s key aspects)

But how exactly do these three things intertwine? Just how do they connect? Well to further understand this let’s take a look at some things revealed as the series has went along, namely how the heart is born and matures.

Although it was hinted for years it was finally bluntly stated by Data-Ansem the Wise (Diz) during the ending of DDD:



Dialogue for the internet inept

Added the text of Data!Diz’s speech for ya even. The parts in bold are the more important parts.

Xemnas too touches upon the mind in a more blunt detail within DDD:

Again the parts in bold are the key points, keep them in mind. Next let me quote Joshua as well:

Every word he says here is deep but important. Who you are is awoken by the sense of knowing yourself or if you will “I think therefore I am” however what refines who you are is when your viewed by others and view them back.

• From these three instances and the rest of the series we gain a unique understanding of the heart. We learn from Chain of Memories that Memory is a key component. They’re indestructible but it’s possible to forget them.

• From Data!Diz above we learn that anything can gain a heart. All it that needs to happen is for something to be aware of itself and gain memories and experiences.

• From Joshua we learn that a heart must also be viewed by another. Not only do you need to recognize yourself but be recognized by others as they are by you.
Now your likely wondering why this is important



The best example of what I mean is Roxas. When Sora changed into a heartless he mentions that his memories was beginning to fade and that he was even forgetting who he was.

Before this could go any further Kairi steps in and has her magical girl/princess dues ex machina moment in which Sora, for lack of better explanation, regains a human/physical form quickly reclaiming his slipping memories and with it mind.

This incident affected Roxas profoundly because by lacking the memories of Sora he was born empty. Roxas didn’t remember being Sora or human.

From there Roxas was forced to start from scratch and over the course of Days he slowly but surely started to become more and more human-like as he formed his own experiences, made his own memories and formed bonds with Axel and Xion. By the end he had formed a sense of identity unique to himself.

As for most other nobodies that retain human memory, from what we’ve seen in those cases the nobody bases it’s identity on those memories which makes them nearly identical to the human counterpart.

Catch it yet?

Well then think of it like this. As he formed his own identity he devloped the mindset that “he is Roxas” and not Sora. The conscious concept of recognizing himself as, well, himself. Basically what the “mind” is is the identity a heart forms for itself. That individuality every being conscious of itself has. The ability to recognize itself as a person separate from others around oneself. This is what Roxas did. He recognized he wasn’t Sora but Roxas.
It’s this loss of mind that spawns the heartless and from there nobodies. Just look again at Xemnas’ words:

As we all know these experiments formed heartless and as Xemnas points out what caused this collapse to darkness was trying to convince a person’s mind to renounce it’s sense of identity. Trying to convince a heart to give up it’s sense of “I am me”.

The fact that heartless are described as “mindless” beings of darkness and instinct on top of the fact that they are born from the heart all points to the fact that the “mind” is the heart’s individuality.
Losing that sense of self causes the heart to falter and lose itself to darkness forming beings that lack both memories and conscious minds.

Spoiler: DLC

Let’s add a bit to this. :3

When reading this (which I’m hoping some did) it raises two questions.

1) What about nobodies?
2) In that case what is Lingering Will?
I think the simple answer is that they’re fragments. Well we seen with Terra that he seems to be in more than one place. His armor is running amok full of rage and then we see Terra talking with Xehanort in Blank Points.


Then of course we know that nobodies typically have sentience and memory despite having lost their heart.

In these cases I think this simply ties into the mind “fracturing”. Something I guess in psychological terms would equate to split personalities.
In our world a mind can form more than one persona to it. It can happen for many reasons but the main point is that it happens at all.

Some people have an entire other self within they coexist or conflict with.

I think we’re seeing a “dumbed down” version here. We know that Roxas and Namine are exception. They was born without memories.
Aside form them however every other nobody we know of has them. They base their personality on it. That’s what is the key I think.

The nobodies base who they are ON those memories. They act accordingly to how they remember acting when human.

That’s how they function essentially. They say so several times. Such as Axel when he states how he is now (a nobody) isn’t much different from how he was as before (human).
We see with Saix as well when he mentions in Kh2 that “they remember what it’s like. that’s what makes them special”.

We also see a lesser nobody (a dusk) talk to Roxas in KH2 saying it’s come for him and calls him it’s liege.

The examples dont end there either. Vanitas from Birth by Sleep says the Unversed are the negativity from his split from Ven. The Unversed ARE Vanitas’ negative emotions made real. He spawns them and when they’re destroyed they return to him.

That’s why Unversed are gone now. They live and they die with Vanitas. What’s key to this topic though is that he states they’re a part of him yet separate.



That’s what it boils down too. These creatures are parts of a heart that’s been fractured. Vanitas was fractured from Ven, from Vanitas Unversed fractured.

Nobodies are born due to a strong heart. If a person becomes a heartless that heart’s strong will refuses to fade away entirely and so a being founds itself fractured.
The still living body respawns elsewhere as a nobody but they cling onto what made them who they are as human, memories. From those memories a new psyche is born albeit identical to the original.

Then there’s the Lingering Will. I think it’s akin to Unversed. Vanitas spawned monsters from simple but strong negative emotions. We know most of Terra is with Xehanort and that the LW functions on Terra’s hatred of Xehanort. That’s all it knows and all it remembers according to it’s own statement after battling Sora. All it has is that hatred.

While I dont think Terra made an Unversed I think it’s similar in nature. His heart and mind refused to bow to Xehanort so it retaliated. The hatred Terra felt and the memories tied to it for Xehanort became the basis of the LW.
The LW is still tied to Terra but it’s also separate from him as well. Which could explain why the LW can wield a keybalde which we know requires a strong heart. Being still tied to Terra’s heart would give it that loophole.

The biggest example of this may be Xehanort himself. His entire plan is to divide his heart among 13 people. Each one is a part and bows to his “main self” but have small quirks that differentiates them such as Xigbar.

Or if you want a more simpler example look at Ansem and Xemans specifically. They’re the Heartless & Nobody of Xehanort. They coexisted but they were both sentient.
Ansem didn’t have a human form until possessing Riku but he had a mind. He had memories and goals and a personality that he shared with Xemnas.

They weren’t exactly the same yet they weren’t entirely different. Like two versions of a fractured mind or if you will two personalities of a single mind would be.

tl;dr Mind=heart's consciousness, Nobodies&OtherBeings=fractures of that ego/mind.
Discuss, read if your bored, etc. :3