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Should Blasphemy be Illegal?

Discussion in 'Mature Discussion' started by Reprise, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. xxxJRosesxxx

    xxxJRosesxxx New Member

    Don't you mean than, not then? My ginger also says that everyones' should be everyone's. Cause the word everyone already states multiple people for you! Hehehe! XD

    I don't fully understand this sentence, it is a personal motivation I have to try to respect everyone's rights. That is true, if that is what you meant.
     
  2. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    Your absolutely right!

    I think this issue is a personal matter for you so you tend to lean more to a 'no penalty policy' for say lashing out against a religion because you can relate.
     
  3. Kitty

    Kitty I Survived The BG Massacre Staff Member Administrator

    I think when you get to the truly blatant and horrific cases of religious intolerance, you can make an argument that the perpetrator is commiting a hate crime. Like, I think the Westboro Baptist Church should be held accountable in some way for some of the crazy stuff they pull.

    But aside from cases like that, I do think permiting the right to free speech is more important than protecting someone from seeing a bible burnt. And I think a law like this would give the government too much power in deciding what constitutes blasphemy. Are burning a bible and burning a copy of the Koran going to be treated equally? In theory, on the lawbooks, you could say yes, but we see often enough that things aren't always equal.
     
  4. Mike

    Mike Member

    Lots of interesting points raised, but let's be careful to return to the points being raised. To say you can't take someone seriously violates the essence of what a forum like this represents...if you're frustrated, take some time away, browse some gaming forums or something of the sort. :)

    Blasphemy laws are a difficult example of what I like to call "people will swallow a lot of BS with even an ounce of truth." This is something that happens a lot in the media, and even in the scientific community.

    On the one hand, we have no governing body for blasphemy, unless of course, there is a God or gods who can attest to what blasphemy is. In such an instance, we human beings, are taking away a divine right by enforcing such rules. Conversely, if there really is nothing of the sort out there, no "divine governing body" so to speak, then a blasphemy law is completely asanine...so I can't think of a good reason to have one, since in either case, it's inherently flawed.

    The points raised however, are good. A blasphemy law would prevent things like say, the freedom to go out and make an anti-Islamic film which incites the middle east into killing hundreds of "infidels." Or Westboro, as has been mentioned. There are things which are done purely out of malice, and these things, imho, are wrong. They are fine-, or even prosecution-worthy acts.

    My response to something like this would simply be that we could deal with such "hate crimes" (for lack of a proper word, close enough) with less stringent laws...even if it needs to be dealt with in a case by case manner. The legal system, with all of its flaws, is fluid, changing, dynamic. In time, perhaps such precedents will be set.

    The last thing I wished to comment on was a remark fairly early on, saying that religion is illogical and that it'd be better if people fell into a simple Venn Diagram: God yes, God no, and God maybe?

    The problem is one of expression. We cannot sort people into, for instance, "Art talent yes, Art talent no" groups and simply leave it at that...if one is an artist they are entitled to express themselves in a way they find satisfying and gratifying. Yes, one could make the argument that religion causes a lot of hardship, arguments, wars, etc. but it's a matter of playing the blame game at this point.

    People will fight over which style of music they prefer, what sort of clothes they wear, what dance styles they like, in some cases, more than over religious differences, and in cases where extreme violence occurs, while I do not condone such actions, it's an indication of true passion. This can happen with religion, yes, but it also happens in say, the music industry.

    So returning to the point...perhaps life would be simpler if we did away with religion. But life would be simpler if everyone dressed the same, and we had absolutely no artistic expression as well. Is simplicity the goal?

    I propose a single rule, or philosophy, that I try to live by: Try not to do anything to annoy anyone else. (Or in other words, the golden rule, I suppose)
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  5. Reprise

    Reprise Semi-present

    You are absolutely right!


    The point of a blasphemy law, if one was ever implemented, would be to prevent people from going out of their way to discourage people or provoke hate. As you said, "people will swallow a lot of BS with even an ounce of truth". Hypothetically, it wouldn't be too difficult to convince people that a certain religion is fake, as long as you have some 'facts' and a lot of charisma. That's the kind of thing a blasphemy law would be there for.

    Since when does music preference cause war and hatred?

    Of course it's not. To propose that all religions be banned would be asinine. What I proposed is that if religion had not become a complicated web of contempt for all other faiths,(which is completely contradictory to the messages which those religions offer)the world would, in my opinion, be better off.

    You just completely twisted our argument and extrapolated it to the extremes(alliteration!).So would you like a world with no laws to prevent people, for example, from shouting racial and sexual slurs at people and verbally tormenting people daily? You could use the same logic to justify quite a few illegal things. That's an extreme version of freedom of speech, but I'm sure you wouldn't be content living like that. Freedom of speech has its limits, just like how banning speech also has its limits.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  6. Mike

    Mike Member

    On a smaller scale, it most certainly does. Gang warfare, all sorts of negative effects as a result of clashing musical tastes. When music/culture is one's way of life, they will defend it to the death. When religion is one's way of life, they too, will defend it to the death.

    While Tupac and Biggie may not measure up to religious purging or anything of the sort, it is directly proportional to how passionate people are about it (and about numbers of people agreeing/disagreeing).


    In other words, I'm suggesting that if religion were not a source of hatred, other such sources of hatred would take its place.
     
  7. BK-201

    BK-201 Member

    It depends on how far you want to take freedom of speech or any ammendment from the bill of rights at that, if you're going to protest using your freedom of speech then you can use that same logic to say that not being allowed to own a rifle that shoots 900+ rounds per minute is unconstitutional. Using xxxJRosesxxx's example of the Westboro Baptist Church you can say it should be legal to picket the funerals of the twenty innocent children of the Sandy Hook shooting. Any freedom should have it's limits if its going to be abused in such a way that it causes conflict like that.
     
  8. Kitty

    Kitty I Survived The BG Massacre Staff Member Administrator

    I don't disagree with this, though I also agree with Mike in that if people don't hate each other over religion, they'll hate each other over something else. But I'm not sure a blasphemy law is any way to change this. A religious bigot is going to continue to be a bigot, whether he can be fined or jailed for it or not. A law might mask it, because no one is saying the words where they can be caught, but the hatred would still be there. Whatever the solution is, I don't think it's as simple as passing and enforcing a law.
     
  9. Reprise

    Reprise Semi-present

    With that kind of logic, why bother enforcing laws at all? Laws alone will not change people's thoughts, but does that necessarily mean that they're pointless? Murder laws prevent people from being murdered, yet the murderous thoughts are still there in would-be-murderers. You can never stop people having certain thoughts, but what you can do is prevent them from acting on those thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  10. Kitty

    Kitty I Survived The BG Massacre Staff Member Administrator

    Well, I see what you're saying, but I don't think murder laws and blasphemy laws are really parallel. And besides, I don't know that a murder law really does any good as a deterrent either, if someone is truly determined to commit the murder. Just like someone truly determined to get on tv and taunt radical Islam will go ahead and do it anyway, whether or not they get in trouble for it. I think laws discourage people who are already moral enough that they wouldn't do the act anyway, and then set punishments for the people who go ahead and break them, which they may or may not care about. *shrugs*

    In any case, I agree that people should be more respectful towards other religions, and each other in general. But I agree with what Mike said about a blasphemy law being inherently flawed, and I also think it would be very difficult (and probably expensive) to properly and equally enforce.
     

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