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Tradition or Truth

Discussion in 'Mature Discussion' started by EtherealSummoner, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. EtherealSummoner

    EtherealSummoner Lamentations 3:22-26

    So... I did a lot of research today... and something got to me. So, I came up with this idea in my mind in a scene:

    "A young man is innocent and has a kind heart. All he wish for is peace in people's lives. So, he lived out his life, doing the best he can for anyone who needs his help for his heart loves them the same he loves the Creator. Soon, the higher authorities gave him favor and he was ordained a minister. The young man found favor and his family grew so well. All he had to do is to teach everyone the beliefs and his knowledge. However, he can't help but feel that something is wrong. There have been times as to where as though he lost some form of fulfillment or joy that he used to have. At first, it seems as though he is tired or is just a coincidence so he rested. However, that was not enough and he left home, searching and traveling to know what it is that he is missing.

    While he was traveling, the young man was in awe of what he had learned. He studied and studied, learning from the many small villages that were forgotten or was not of importance to the higher authorities. From gaining great understanding, he realizes that tradition back home was but a folly and that it only kept his people from the real truth. Devastated, he is now stuck in the middle, not knowing what to forget and what to accept. However, he finally found the joy that he first had and decided that it is time to go against tradition and share to everyone the truth".


    Just a small scenario that I had thought up. Some of us always want to go "We must always do this in our family, nation, church or whatever because it is tradition and it has always been carried down like that". Does it mean that tradition is right? What is wrong with change? What is wrong with showing the truths that there are flaws in tradition? We all do not want to walk around with a veil over our heads, not seeing what is really going on behind closed doors and sometimes, we can see tradition like "The United States is the greatest nation in the world", "Capitalism is the way", "We ALWAYS sing the national anthem", and so on and so forth. Your thoughts? I am having a Yuna moment right now.
     
  2. Cameron

    Cameron New Member

    Well, on my case, I've never been really one to uphold traditions of any kind. Let's say in example, around here when a man turns 18, he must attend the army for between 6 months and 1 year (depending on the line that you are specializing) or attend non-military service for a year. Everyone in my family have attended the military services expect my cousin and I'm going to take the path of non-military service as well which my father doesn't really accept. He doesn't say or express it but I just know it, being the old stubborn man he is.

    Breaking the rules and traditions has been a great part of my life ever since I understood what rules are. I got bad grades in school for not attending to classes because it felt wrong that someone was tying me up to do something which I cannot decide myself (mainly meaning that the law states that you have to get education whether it's issued at public, private or home school). The same goes with the law that you have to attend the army whether you like it or not (non-military services are still connected to the army as they just educate you on how to serve your country during war), so I've been trying to avoid it as long as I can, though after two years I have to attend or the police are going to make my live a living hell (if they find me, ha!).

    Traditions of religion have never been really strong around here, so religion hasn't never been a meaningful theme in my life. I've never really believed in God because in elementary school I didn't really understand what they tried to teach us about God, and once I knew what they were trying to preach, I just stopped listening. Sure, I went to confirmation school (I don't know if you guys have it in the U.S., it's a week or two long religious camp where you gain the right to be a godfather or godmother and the right to marry in a church) but it was just because to most of the teens it is more of a social gathering than a chance to study religion.

    For me, rules and traditions have been unnecessary things that I've been trying to avoid and I will do so in the future as well. I don't like being tied down by traditions that everyone expects me to follow.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  3. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    I don't get the little story. It sounds like the man and his family was living the life. If he was not satisfied that's him, why does he get to decide for everyone else what is the truth?

    The difference between right and wrong is a discussion onto itself. If someone believes a tradition is wrong while the other believes it is right. That's just a clash in beliefs. The truth is opinionated. My truth may be different from your truth or some others' truth. Your own truth may work for you but not necessarily for someone else.

    What's wrong with staying the same?

    Or the traditions could find flaws in your truth. The truth can't obviously be perfect.

    We live this way everyday!
     
  4. EtherealSummoner

    EtherealSummoner Lamentations 3:22-26

    @Angel I'll start with you first. First off, truth should not be opinionated. Truth should be facts and only facts. As for staying the same, I... I honestly believe that we need some change in our lives at one point. Otherwise, we will just end up being stubborn, not wanting to learn at all. not only that, why can't the truth be perfect? Is it because it will bring fear?

    @Cameron I never heard of a confirmation school before... and I never knew that where you live, you need to go there in order to be a Godfather to a child (Hope I do not see that in this nation in "wonderful" America) but why try to gain the right to marry in a church? Should be automatic. I never really participated in any army services or anything. -_- That and I am tired of all of the army recruits coming to the high school at that time and was giving me calls. Never really had an interest in it and I definitely had a feeling not to even join.

    I don't know. Did a lot of research and it seems that people are living a tradition without even knowing it... being a part of the world's program so to speak. To me, tradition is just something that has just HAD to be repeated over and over again because it was done so many years ago. Does the tradition has meaning or not as much meaning as it is supposed to? Like serving in the army for example. Is it really good to serve in the army with your life and be claimed to have so many benefits after such a certain amount of time in the force or is there something else that is more than meets the eye?
     
  5. Cameron

    Cameron New Member

    Well, it's part of Lutheranism branch, and that's tradition right there. Around here it is required of you go through confirmation school to gain the right to marry in church and to be a godfather.

    Also, I forgot to mention about the army system in our country - if you do not go through the military or non-military service, you are toss into prison for a year if I recall correctly and it gives you bad papers which effect your whole life from that moment on. The only thing how you can avoid going to the army is either to be a Jehovah's Witness or move away. Even how I'd love to go to prison for that short period of time, I wouldn't get a job or a school after that because the papers state that I have been in prison. So be glad that it's not the same how things work there.

    That's a country stuck into it's traditions.
     
  6. xxxJRosesxxx

    xxxJRosesxxx New Member

    Hmmmm, well tradition hold a place in all societies and cultures. It'd what brings them together and preserves their cultures. This discussion reminds of the movie Fiddler on the Roof, a musical very much about questioning tradition but also seeing the value with it. Jewish tradition in particular is extremely valued because well Jewish people have been persecutor long before the horrible, horrible Holacaust. So naturally they hold to their traditions as a way to prevail through the thousands of years of injustice done to them.

    Of course there are different dominations of Judasism just like Christianity, and we all know the difference between a simply church attender to a Westboro Baptist member. There are some more extreme traditions out there that have no place in the modern world.

    Sooo? Tradition holds a place in our many, mant different cultures but that doesn't always make them good and up to date with progress. I would say there are some simple basics of right and wrong we can all agree on like murder, rape, assault, and etc are all horrible things. I say as long as no ones traditions upholds those in favor and don't try to force them down our throats, who cares?
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  7. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    Truth! In this case, it's not facts but something generally believed. You can't disprove traditions, only can you change them. Let's say we went backwards and regressed in our learning instead of forward would that change be okay? There can't be a perfect truth. If there was then we all would be following it.

    Ahh! I studied Martin Luther during the Reformation. You must live in one of the countries close to northern Germany and around Sweden. But, that's 16th century, Lutheran has spread much from then.

    Presently, most would say yes. But, there was a time where it wasn't such a taboo like it is today. That just shows how much right and wrong wavers with time.
     
  8. EtherealSummoner

    EtherealSummoner Lamentations 3:22-26

    @JRose oh no. Not Fiddler on the Roof. Was doing a play during my freshman year and it's like relearning the Holocaust all over again.

    @Cameron Then why not move? You know that you do not like it over there because of the rules and traditions.

    @Angel And if the truth was shown to you? Would that not be facts? If I show to you and say that fruits can grow from trees, planting a seed and the tree and it grew plums, would that not be fact? It's like you are saying that it is best to stay trap in such a tradition like before when people kept on saying that the sun revolves around the Earth when it is actually the complete opposite, being afraid to break that tradition to see that they may be wrong. If you ask me, I say that tradition can be corrected.
     
  9. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    Up and leaving a country isn't as simple as mere words!

    This is the 21st century. I don't understand what that has to do with traditions. A fruit being the edible part of a plant and I know what a fruit is, then of course I know it can grow from a tree. I'm talking about traditions usually involving intangible things such as actions and a way of life. How can you present truth to a belief or custom? You can't [None that I can think of]! If I were to say I use a human sacrificial offer to please the things that be. How are you going to prove me wrong?

    Just to humor the thought. I don't know if the sun revolves around the Earth or vice versa. I just take peoples' word on it or better yet, what I've learned in school. Do I truly know that the Earth revolves around the Sun? No. Will I ever? No. I don't think anyones' life will change any more significantly from actually knowing that little tidbit.

    Whether its okay to stay within your traditions or start your own. I think its just up to the individual or on occasions individuals to lead others.
     
  10. Kitty

    Kitty I Survived The BG Massacre Staff Member Administrator

    Sherlock Holmes said pretty much the same thing in "A Study in Scarlet." I realize that's irrelevant, but whatever, the unintentional reference made me smile.

    I'm not sure I get the story in the opening post, but if you want my two cents anyway, I don't think there's anything inherent in traditions that makes them "right." They seem right a lot of the time because they're what you've grown up with. But, there's also nothing inherent in traditions that automatically makes them wrong, either. I think it's important for knowledge not to be lost through the generations, and like xxxJRosesxxx said, traditions preserve our culture. But I think whether or not to follow a family, or religion, or country's traditions is a decision that needs to be made by each person as it suits their needs.

    I don't quite understand what all the truth talk is about. But I'm not sure how to articulate it any more than that. I'm not sure that what I think when I think of "tradition" is the same as what is meant in the opening post. I think of actions passed down and repeated (like sitting as a family at dinner every evening with the tv off; or holidays) more than I think of a random fact (i.e. the fruit-growing example, or the sun/earth example, or the "US is the greatest country" opinion). *shrugs*
     
  11. Reprise

    Reprise Semi-present

    I am not keen on the idea of doing something a certain way because of tradition(for example, singing the National Anthem). I don't believe that traditions are wrong but it is rather pointless to do things because "it has always been carried down like that". Of course, since most people grow up with tradition, they don't question why it's done that way. So long as people are content in tradition, is there any need to tell them the "truth"?

    I'm actually not sure, though, what kind of tradition you are referring to. It seems like you're actually just talking about limited knowledge(the world is flat), as opposed to actual traditions(say thank you, otherwise you'll come off as impolite).

    What I really dislike, however, are traditions like these:

    -John is shopping with his mother. His mother runs into a work friend and waves at her friend. However, John doesn't say hello, as he doesn't know the person. John is chastised for being rude and 'ignoring' the work friend.-

    I personally don't like things like that. It would be absolutely pointless to greet a stranger or an acquaintance who you hardly know, unless you intend to actually converse with that person after 'hello'. However, you come off as rude if you don't at least acknowledge that person's presence. It really isn't a big deal because saying hello doesn't require much effort, but it's a pointless tradition in my opinion and if you don't folow the tradition, you seem like a bad person for something which isn't actually impolite at all. Does that make sense?
     
  12. Mike

    Mike Member

    I think traditions are our tie-in with the past, and those we've left behind. Contrary to what I've read in the thread for the most part, I think traditions are one of the things that define us as individuals (that and perspective).

    We all have our traditions, if you look at them a certain way. I have a very ethnic, traditional Christmas dinner with my family every year, for instance. It's my way of remembering and sharing in my family's presence, as well as having a tie back to my ancestral roots.

    Even something as menial as brushing your teeth in the morning can be thought of as a tradition, if you associate a positive memory (such as doing it together with your spouse). Such a tradition can be 'modified' temporarily, up to a point (ie. if your spouse passes away). At which point, the tradition becomes static, a memorial rite.

    While in this 'memorial rite' sense, traditions cannot change, we must not be afraid to start new traditions...which I believe is a more accurate description of what happens when we 'change' traditions.
     

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