Religion

I might have read your sentence wrong, but how are we sinful to trust ourselves? It sounds like you're saying it's a sin to trust yourself. And depending on who you are, that's a load of bull****. There are some people who can be trusted. There are some people who can't be trusted. And then there are some people who can be trusted in certain situations, and can't be trusted in other situations.

 

I know how you feel Roxas. I can't trust people because they are sinfu, but that doesn't mean they can't change. You can trust people, even though they are sinnners. Do know why you can trust them, because they can change. Its true people can't let go of the past or thier sins, but there are those willing to forget to embrace tomorrow. That is why you can trust them.

 

i'm not saying its a sin to trust ourselves, you did read it wrong, haha.
But putting trust in humankind is weakness, because even though there may be exceptions, the whole of mankind is pure evil. We are thinking selfishly constantly. We are sinful creatures that do not change easily.

mhm, i know. But don't all one world on me, haha. Our race is not ready to trust others, for we ourselves are evil beings, and until we can fix ourselves, we can not fix others.

My main point is that the "world" doesn't need a Messiah or a Dr.Phil to tell us what to do. We need to learn ourselves how to become better than what we are right now, we are the ever learning student in life, trying to figure everything out, just trying to do what is right and end up doing the thing that is wrong. Trial after trial, we get through it with nothing but the experience and the wisdom to know what will happen if it happens again.

 

I see what you are getting at. Its funny, you kinda remind of me of Light Yagami.

 

Yea. I understand Mike. Everyone will sin regardless, everyone born in sin, there will be people who will do cruel things, but what about the people who tries to do good things from their heart? You won't trust them too?

 

I am just wondering, how many other atheists are there on the site?

 

I wonder that also.

 

I wouldn't say we're evil, let alone pure evil. Humans are neither good or evil. We have the capacity to do good things. We have the capacity to do evil things. It's like this one quote I once read. Humans are neither good or evil, humans are just social.

 

LMFAO. I only trust people who

1. Do Not Force Their Ideals On Me
2. Do Not Preach To Me
3. Do Not Tell Me Negative Things About My Religion
4. Do Not Make Their Religion Seem The BEST One In The Whole World
5. Do Not Tell Me That I Am Going To Hell
6. Do Not Commit Crime
7. Do Not Act Like They Are The Shit
8. Do Not Critize Me Because Of My Actions
9. Do Not Bitch, Moan, And Complain

Yeah, I mean, we all sin. No one is perfect. I Drink. People have sex. People smoke. People sell their bodies are the street. So what? Make up for it, get over it, and your done. Lord, I know I am going be the best doctor I can be.

 

well, yes but we cant help having sin, few people have never told a lie.

 

Hmm, humans are neither good nor evil. I kinda agree with you Desert. I agree with the capacity to do evil and good things. Maybe we are neither good nor evil. Maybe humans are the middle of good and evil. Demons are evil and angels are good and we are the middle.

 

I don't think people are pure evil, or neutral. I agree completely with DW, except for feeling as though it's contradictory to say both things:

-People are capable of both good and evil (I wholeheartedly agree).
-People are neutral.

If people really were neutral...then where does the knowledge of good and evil come from? The ability to choose (Free Will included) means man must 'select' a reaction from that which he knows how to do...

I feel as though this implies people are good and evil...instead of just neutral.

Conversely, if people were purely evil then the capability for good would escape them...but this isn't the case.

lol God-forbid (pun intended). That's all we need...

You may believe the world doesn't need one...but that doesn't mean we didn't get one. It's foolish to argue that Dr. Phil does not exist simply on the basis that he's a qwack and we don't need him.

Likewise, even if you think a Messiah is overrated, uncool, whatever it is you think, it's foolish to argue on that basis alone, that a Messiah did not exist.

If people were purely evil, then how can you say that? Your viewpoint almost directly implies that people are buffoons, incapable of any good and would only 'learn' more evils.

If anything, if people were purely evil, then it would demand a Messiah to set things right.

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Ah SB, if only it were that everyone was as easy to read as you. can't deny that if I knew a given person tried to do good things from their heart that I would trust them...

The problem is, I have no way of knowing, and instead assume the worst of people.

 

I agree, Maybe there is no neutrality. Maybe we have to choose between good and evil. I do not know the whole thing but I do know we are given a choice. Like I said, we are the middle, we are both good and evil. Maybe we just can't choose one side. Maybe we are both of them. We are both darkness and light.

 

Real quick Mike, I don't think he was saying either Dr. Phill or the Messiah didn't exist. He was stating that the world doesn't need someone to fix it.

 

He was saying that.

 

He went from saying that we don't need one to that despite not wanting them, we got them. I'm sure Rox knows we have them, but was using them as an metephor. Mike seemed to take this more literal. So maybe re-word it?

 

No, I know what he meant...

But it's amazing how many people take this as solid reasoning against there being a Messiah. I simply pointed out that this wouldn't be a valid conclusion.

"Oh it's silly to use this logic against Dr. Phil because he clearly exists. But Christ, no way man, he doesn't exist because we don't need a Messiah."

 

I know. Hey Mike, what did you think about my post earlier about us humans being in the middle?

 

I quickly whipped this up in MSPaint, this is how I see things:



This is the scale of "Relative Righteousness" I was refering to in another post.

Your definition of 'neutral' is identical to my idea of 'zero.' In other words "I wasn't particularly good or bad today."

I'm suggesting the human spirit is "disconnected" (the big red ball). As such, Right vs. Wrong is no longer a Black and White issue...we can willingly and even unwillingly do both because we just don't see the difference as clearly anymore (which biblically, is because of original sin).

So with respect to the neutrality, I think it's essentially the same idea, since neutrality fits nicely into the model I'm proposing.


However...where things start to get sticky is when you suppose demon = evil, people = neutral, angel = good.

As I mentioned in my last post (and as my drawing now attests to), I believe the human spirit contains good and evil. So I don't think there's any such thing as 'true neutral' except that in the long run, though we may have good days and bad, we 'average out' to 0 (and are hence neutral).

But then furthermore...what about angels and demons? Well, take Lucifer for instance, who was said to be the smartest, strongest, most beautiful angel ever made until he fell from Heaven.

How could he have gone from the very right end of the scale (angel = good) to the very left end of the scale (demon = evil)? Which is he? Most would say he is evil...but this simple argument could suggest otherwise.

It's for this reason that I believe angels and demons are neither good nor evil. I think the notions of good and evil are distinctly human, just words used to classify behaviour.


Perhaps to those religious, a better set of terms would be agape (meaning pure, God-like love) for good, and sin for evil.

In this sense, you might be right to suggest that angel = agape, demon = sin, and that humans all have their own personal demons to fight.

 

First off, we say that the human spirit contains good & evil, but when christians recieve the holy spirit, we recieve the spirit of god. But, I still understand what you meant Mike, because even though we're saved, we still can get tempted & may do the wrong thing. Also, about that angel & demon thing, this is what I have to say: Free will. Demons have their own will & angels have their own wills. Remember about those angels that Lucifer brought down with him now. They followed him by their own free wills. Any other angels, including Michael, who stayed by God's side, that was by their own free will too. Also, just because you say we don't need them does not mean that they don't exist. This universe is so large that it's way beyond our human power & knowledge to understand. It's always expanding endlessly. Also Mike, didn't they taught you in church about "Testing the spirit to see if they're of God or not"? If they didn't, then you really need to try that. It can help you. The only one who is pure evil or pure good is Lucifer & God himself. I don't find anyone on this earth who can be pure evil (Although there is Adolf Hitler & the Ku-Klux- Clan who're real cruel. ) I can't think anyone who is like that. Also, about being neutral. We can NEVER be neutral between God or the Devil. It's either one or the other. We come lukewarm & he'll spew us from his mouth. Yes, we are the middle of a struggle because God wants to save us while Lucifer wants to get our souls that makes us neutral & what we do is neutral, but when it comes to picking sides, that's what is never neutral.

As for you Yukou, i never did do anyone of those things to you ( I don't remember if I did say a scripture to you to help you, so that's why I put #2 in big bold, italic letters) & I never do act like I'm "The shoot" (XD Can't find any other word to say.). Did I ever committed a crime? NEVER & I'M PRAYING THAT I WON'T COMMIT ONE FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE! Yes, I be worry about you Yukou because of your actions, but I never do criticize you. That's downgrading a person that God created to be very unique from everyone else. Also, I don't know what is your religion you is into (XD Either you never said anything about it or I forgot.) & regardless how many times you have in your av or sig "CUT B'S & I DON'T GIVE A FREAK ABOUT MY LIFE SO FREAK YOU!" I still have love for you & I'll still worry about you. Also, about the people having sex, this is what I have to say on that one.

Sex is not bad. It's just the time that we decided to have sex. Having sex before you get married is wrong. Christians who marry those who marry unchristians, the christians will recieve punishment. ( You don't want to know what broked my heart when I said something in bible class & recieved the answer that I didn't want to recieved back.) Also, never being ready to have sex & not picking the time & place to have sex wisely can mess you up real bad. That's why a lot of people be choosing abstinence & you see pregnant teenage girls popping up, but some of those may have either been raped or was forced to have sex, but I don't want to get all into that, but yes, humans are not perfect, & like you said, we just have to repent, don't do it again, & forget about it. ^^ I hope you achieve the career you want to succeed in.