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Mithras, the true god?

Discussion in 'Mature Discussion' started by Mythril Roxas, Jan 7, 2009.

  1. Waterfall17

    Waterfall17 New Member

    I am not surprised at your questioning. It concerns me, however, that you did not seek God’s face before theirs.

    I enjoy gathering information from others for a number of reasons. Experience is one way in which we learn things…and many people, in their experiences, have great insights to offer. I enjoy collecting these insights and attempting to apply them to my life.

    However, men do not know everything. People seemingly always expect me to have all of the answers because I am a Christian. (As a side note, this does not seem very logical to me that many are greatly upset and scorn us when we admit that we do not have all of the answers…an Atheist does not have all of the answers, despite his/her claims to being more intelligent than the rest of humankind, having a superior understanding of the universe [thinking in particular of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris]…likewise neither does a Muslim, nor does a Wiccan, nor does an Animist, nor does a Hindu, nor does a Buddhist. Yet it is expected of Christians to know everything. Why is this?)

    I may be a Christian, but I am still human; I am not God, who knows all things! I do not have all of the answers, though I should long that in many things the Holy Spirit would speak through me that there may be understanding and edification.

    God, who knows all things, can handle your questions. If He wills, He will answer them in His appointed time. Some answers are very direct. Some are not. Some will come through Spirit-filled people, some will come from Scripture…God uses many ways to reach those who ask of Him. We are to glorify God with all that we are—and this includes the mind.

    We must be careful what we accept as truth and what we discern as untruth; for there are a great many people out there who think that they are speaking truth, but are lying. I was one of these. After I found out I was devasted, and sought to undo the damage that I had done…though perhaps for some it was too late.

    [As another side note…I am very glad to know that my family is beginning to respond now that I have been a Christian for 3 years despite their original threats to kick me out of the house, and their throwing out my Bible, banning me from the internet (Bible access), and throwing out any Christian literature available to me…that lasted at least a year and a half. They have seen my life turn completely around because of Christ. This isn't to say that I don't make mistakes. I'm not perfect. But I seek God, and He fixes me, teaches me, and continues to use me.]

    Though sometimes I have wavered on this (I suppose it is easier to waver on it when in a Christian community, which I am here at college), I seek God first when I have a question. This is not to say that research collecting in various forms is wrong; on the contrary, one should research. Asking God first is my way of saying that I trust Him, that I acknowledge that He knows everything, and if He wills to reveal it to me, He will.


    About your friend, I hope that he discontinued following paganism. The New Age considers its followers to be wise—more so than many others. It’s extremely deceitful, though. The wisdom of the world is but foolishness...after all.

    I have a friend that I am speaking to now that is an Atheist/Shinto believer…he does not believe in one God who created everything…yet he acknowledges that there is something more to this universe than science can reveal. To me, this is progress. I think that it is because of the influence of the Nihonjin (Japanese) games and manga and anime that we have both played, read and/or watched. But it is my great hope that he would grow to understand what I have spoken to him…if he only knew how much I love him, how much God loves him…it just breaks my heart.
     
  2. Mythril Roxas

    Mythril Roxas New Member

    This is were are views part...
    I believe that we can find god THROUGH the wisdom of this world. He condemned us here, this material body is our souls punishment. For most people, death is a peaceful experience. But life is so much harder.
    Saying things like "God is the only one who knows everything" creates something i like to call "the box". It creates a boundary of knowledge for ones mind, and that is something i refuse to believe in. A boundary.
    Experience IS knowledge, we learn through LIVING, and what is life as a whole? Just an experience. Just knowledge. What does life matter at the end of the day when you meet god's judgement? Nothing more than what you've learned...knowledge. So to put a boundary on what god wants us to fully know and feel I think is wrong.
     
  3. Waterfall17

    Waterfall17 New Member

    So, why do you think that God condemned us to the earth? What gives you this impression? ...and why do you think that a physical body is a prison to the soul?
    And do you honestly believe that the world is wise? If so, why?

    Life is so much harder. Interesting, again...you know, there was a point very recently that I would have agreed with you on that one. In some ways, I still agree--fighting isn't easy. Following God isn't always easy. There is a price: persecution, trials and tribulations. But the reward(s) are so much greater...anyway, I disagree now. I think that there is great misunderstanding regarding what is life and what is death. What do you think that each is? You stated that life is an experience. Why do you limit it so, and give death such a high title?

    Life matters very much at judgment. I walk among the dead, who, though they walk too, are empty. Knowledge doesn’t save you. Demons know. Plenty of people know. But that doesn’t mean anything. Knowledge that isn’t applied is useless.

    I don’t think that God limits our knowledge. We aren’t God! To assert that we can know everything that He knows doesn’t make sense. We wouldn’t be able to retain that amount of information…much less be able to use it.

    Do you know everything? Can you create a universe with your voice? Please explain why you think it is limiting to accept that God does and did...Because that would be saying that humans can’t do everything…I’m trying to see where you’re coming from, if you’ll forgive me for all of the questions.
     
  4. Mythril Roxas

    Mythril Roxas New Member

    The Fallen Angel legend. I am in the belief that our souls are undergoing punishment because we were given the choice. Be under god, or be like god. And we fell with Lucifer, and are living an eternal punishment of death, through reincarnation of our souls. We live, we die, we live, we die, until our souls have LEARNED THEIR LESSON in a sense. Until we TRULY repent. Now you may be thinking, 'well, i dont believe that because i would've never turned away from god'. Well, maybe you need to reconcider what you think GOD is, and how to TRULY REPENT of your sins. Man is evil. He is a creature of lies. We can say were loyal all we want, but in the end we may be the one stabbing our Masters in the back. We can't be trusted. 99.9% ARE EVIL! BUT(!) there is hope. Repentance will get us back to Paradise, and I am also in the belief that God sent some good angels to try and MAKE the demons who fell repent, BECAUSE he cares about us and wants us back. If "Jesus" really saved everyone, then why are we still here?

    I dont give death a title really, I'm just stating that once you get past the pain, death IS easy. Life and living, feeling pain here and there, just waiting to die is much harder. Like what that chick said in Twilight.

    your mixing Laws of nature with knowledge. Knowledge allows us to confront temptation and defy it, and choose the right path. The Laws of Nature only tell us what is right and what is wrong. I look at Knowledge like you would like at.....faith. It is our weapon.

    true. But I dont like the limitation of some things we may be able to understand.

    Like I've said, we are evil, and we try to e like gods. But we aren't. thats the point. What we must aspire to is to return to god in Paradise, and the only way to do that is to KNOW what god wants us to know, LEARN what god wants us to learn through LIVING what gods wants us to live.
     
  5. Waterfall17

    Waterfall17 New Member

    We cannot be like God. This is a lie from satan. Adam and Eve, remember? Satan tricked Eve into believing the lie, that she could be like God. You probably won’t like this, but I would ask of you to read Isaiah 40:21-31; 42:5; 42:8; 43:7; and 43:10-13. If you read nothing else, please read 43:10-13.

    We did indeed fall…but that doesn’t mean that God cannot call us back to Himself. Romans 5!! There is but one death…and then there is a resurrection of the dead (both saved and unsaved), and then there is judgment. [Basic point: reincarnation is not true. fyi, I used to believe in reincarnation also. Jesus says nothing about it during His lifetime here on earth as a Man. God never mentions it in His Word. And satan does nothing to fight against such doctrine, which makes it suspect by default…]

    And yes, I do indeed believe that I turned away from God—in the sense that before I believed in Christ with all of my heart, before I accepted Him as Lord and Savior—I was fallen. I was a slave to sin. True repentance is following Christ. The Blood paid for every single one of the sins that I committed/will commit simply because that is human nature. We are not perfect. This does not mean that we should sin more or disregard sin in our lives because grace abounds. God has called us to “Be holy, for I am holy” (I Peter 1:16…and throughout OT, obviously, because that’s where Peter got it from). Don’t beat yourself up or believe the LIE that you cannot be completely forgiven. Think about who paid for you!! Who died for you. Who humbled Himself for you… (John 3:16; Romans 15:8-9)…who loves you!! [Not to preach a sermon, but seriously. He does love you.]

    It always astounds me how much satan hates us. I mean he really hates us—loathes us, with a fervent passion. How great the contrast!! God cannot lie, does not lie, is holy. Satan is the deceiver and the father of lies. Who are you going to believe, satan or God?

    I’ll share something else with you that I feel is important to share. I have trust issues. By issues I mean that I basically don’t believe what people say—any sort of compliment, some displays of emotion (even when they are genuine), certain comments they make about themselves, that they are actually going to stay with me and be an actual friend—I have issues. My basic perception right at the moment is that people are fickle and they are never going to be there for me even if they say they are. I think that God intends to change that drastically. That isn’t really the point though. The point is, because my mother lied to me so often in both speech and action, I don’t trust. I can’t. I am unable to trust people because I learned that people lie to you. At the same time, I know that God’s people aren’t liars. Liars will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Lying is sinful. God hates lies. Yet I have the hardest time accepting what people say, especially compliments and “pledges” of friendship. I simply do not trust them fully because I just can’t. I want to—but I can’t.

    It is not the same at all with God, however. I can trust God with anything and everything. He already knows everything about me. And yet, He still loves and accepts me. Can you believe it?! He loves and accepts me. (Sorry, it just amazes me that much.) I trust Him so much that I am willing to take a leap of faith (or several) knowing that He will catch me, even though I often have no idea where, or why, or how…

    God will not make anyone repent. It is a choice. This is loving. He loves us so much that He will not force His will upon anyone—He will not force anyone to repent. He offers us salvation, and we are given the choice to either receive Him or reject Him. Sometimes I wouldst that I could make people repent, because I want so badly for them to know God. It frustrating! But if everyone was made to believe, we would all be mindless drones. There is no relationship in this. It’s empty.

    (Demons…fallen angels and demons are not the same. Fallen angels are in chains. Demons are freely—ish, under satan’s command, who is under the authority of God—moving about. They hate God. While we’re on the subject, I might as well add that my family has had quite a bit of involvement in the occult…and I have researched a little in the field myself. Demons can’t be cast out in the name of krishna. Or baal. Or satan. Do you know the one name that they can, and must be cast out in? The name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Oh, how they fear Him, and oh how they cringe at the mere mention of His blood! They know that He is the Son of the Most High God. They know that He is Lord.)

    I agree that God does care about us. Deeply. And He does want us to know and believe in Him. He does want us to glorify Him. He does want us to find satisfaction in Him. He does want us to experience His peace, and His presence. The end will come. No one but God knows when the end will come. I can’t recall the verse right now, but there is a place in Scripture that speaks about God’s patience in regards to man and the time allotted till the end. Something about how He is giving more time (in a sense) for people to repent, because He desires that all might repent and come to Him.

    Jesus is the Savior, but not everyone accepts Him. Therefore, not everyone is Saved. “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me” (Rev 3:20). The gift of salvation, of life, needs to be accepted. It is freely given, but that doesn’t mean everyone takes it. Again, it is choice.

    I am here to glorify God—to reveal Him—to the people of the earth. I hope that He will send me to Japan (though I will go wherever He sends me, and I will rejoice).


    I want to thank you so much (this is strange, and I am hopeful you do not take it the wrong way). You have no idea how greatly you have encouraged me in answering my questions and allowing me to respond. It reminds me of God…which is just the encouragement that I needed. :)



    Bella…is melodramatic and unrealistic. However, I can relate to the pain aspect and the manifestation of her pain was accurate in many ways. For myself I was more reserved by my temperament, but the idea is that my heart hurt. There is no other word. Agony, anguish, pain—it just hurt. I wanted my heart to stop hurting.

    You are going to think that this is cliché, but it’s true. The only time(s) I ever felt any healing was when I sought God. I suffered 9 MONTHS. The burden so heavy I wanted to die—thought that the emotional pain, if it had a physical equivalent, would kill me instantly—even though I still had hope in God. God gave me such a great gift…when I first became a Christian, (I don’t know how to explain this, so pardon me because English just isn’t sufficient) I felt light shining on me. Golden rays of light, filled with a warmth that tingled. It was like the glory of the Lord shining down on me. This has happened to me twice in my life. Both times there was an overwhelming sense of love. I know that He is good. I know that He is God. I know that He is Truth. And I KNOW that He loves me, and that He loves you, no matter how I or you feel. I know it. And I know it because He has revealed Himself to me in such a way that will never allow me to forget that He is God. He is the Holy One. This is why I have hope in God; I know who He is.

    I figured out recently that the reason my heart hurt was because I wasn’t seeking God. I wasn’t reading Scripture. I wasn’t praying. I wasn’t seeking His face in really anything…and I wouldn’t allow Him to heal me. It got to the point where He had to shatter my heart and re-build it again. Do you have any idea what it feels like to have your heart shattered? Not broken. Shattered. And I told no one because I had no words to express the agony. And I hid it because that’s who I am. I often wear a mask when in pain because 1) it might hurt/burden other people to see pain like that 2) I have difficulty with “overly showy” displays of emotion because I tend to think they are fake [the whole trust issue thing, and yes, sometimes I distrust myself. Then I am comforted, though, because even if I do not know my own heart/my heart’s intentions all the time, the Lord does, for He searches the hearts], 3) sometimes my body decides that it will shut off my feelings in front of others—or I shut them off—because of overload. Not that I desire to always…such habits are difficult to break.

    Yet in all this, I know virtually nothing of suffering. My Lord suffered so much more than I could ever or will ever suffer…

    Healing takes a long time when hurt runs deep. The rebuilding process is not an easy one. But God is the Healer, and the Redeemer, and the Deliverer, and He tends our hurts with great care—with gentleness and love. Yes, I suppose it would have been easier to die. But I want to glorify the Lord, and I want everyone that I meet to know Him and believe in Him. I cannot do that after I die. Praise the Lord for saving me and for healing me, for loving me, a sinner!!


    Do the Laws of Nature really tell us what is right and what is wrong? From an evolutionary standpoint (which claims to follow the laws of nature), they tell us what is. I stated somewhere that cruelty becomes noncruelty…and I said this because in nature by itself, it doesn’t matter. Nature could care less if it destroyed your house (it has no capacity to care). It does not distinguish between right and wrong. It is survival of the fittest, in whatever special way you might like to phrase it. Nothing is wrong—therefore nothing is right. But we know that the universe doesn’t work this way (can't remember the word...annoying...idea of solely) "entirely"; there is morality. Right and wrong exist. If they didn’t, why would the terms themselves exist? We wouldn’t know what they are. Language is basically a set of sounds/signs that symbolize things. Bed—something we sleep on. Some words symbolize abstract concepts, like right and wrong. They wouldn’t exist if we didn’t have the abstract concept in the first place to have the need to create a name identifying it.

    I agree with the bit about knowledge—but then again we run into the problem of “what is knowledge.” False doctrine can be known, it’s just not accurate. Knowledge can be a very effective weapon. The direction of that weapon depends on whether the things you know are accurate or not. I can have knowledge about a lie from satan. Example of a lie from satan: I am worthless. That lie, if I believed it, I would consider to be knowledge about myself, wouldn’t I? The truth is, God values me. This can be seen throughout Scripture. What I once “knew” about myself, then, is false, which means that if I had believed it and acted upon it, I would have eventually chosen what was wrong and what was bad for me.

    Knowledge can be dangerous when it is not used the right way and/or when what you think of as knowledge is not actually truth, but falseness. This is one of the reasons I speak so frequently about the danger of mixing, of syncretism (in religion. In culture and other such things, as long as they don’t violate God’s moral law, they shouldn’t be cause for concern). There are many doctrines that one can have knowledge of, but they aren’t all true.

    The last point you made is appreciated in some respects. The part about being evil is correct for one who is in sin and is not Saved. For the one who is Saved, he/she is the temple of the Living God. To say then that we are evil and that we do wickedly and make ourselves like God is not true.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2009
  6. Mythril Roxas

    Mythril Roxas New Member

    we are evil, we are fallen, and to not truly realize that makes us all the more stubborn.
     
  7. Waterfall17

    Waterfall17 New Member

    Did I not say that we are fallen? ...in that monologue (sorry, it was necessary) I'm pretty sure I covered it. This is one of the best parts!! That God still loves us, though we have sinned, and He has redeemed us. If we believe in Him, we are no longer "fallen;" we are dead to sin.

    I will need to explain this more fully...but sadly I do not currently have time. I need to get up at like 4 in the morning...*sigh*
     
  8. Mythril Roxas

    Mythril Roxas New Member

    WE need to redeem OURSELVES! God can not redeem us necesarily, it is we who have to repent.
     
  9. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    What Waterfall17 is saying is that God redeemed us by sending Jesus down, and then from Jesus being crucified, the gateway to Heaven is open for us. Now we just need to believe in God and the whole nine yards.

    Of course, that's only if you believe in that. If not, then I can't exactly explain it.
     
  10. Mythril Roxas

    Mythril Roxas New Member

    i KNOW WHAT SHE MEANS, BUT WHAT i'M SAYING IS THAT IT ISN'T TRUE. yOU WONT BE Saved BY BELIEVEING IN jESUS....IT TAKES MORE THAN THAT. tHE AFTERLIFE IS ALL BASED ON KARMA.
     
  11. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    That's why I said the whole nine yards. I know it takes more than just believing in Jesus.
     
  12. Mythril Roxas

    Mythril Roxas New Member

    good. But most christians don't, unfortunately....
     
  13. Waterfall17

    Waterfall17 New Member

    I apologize that it has taken so long for me to get back…I have been busy with course work…and I fell asleep. Oops. But I’m awake now, so! :)

    Well, I actually wrote quite a lot…but first I need to address karma because it is crucial…

    Please explain why you believe in karma, Mythril Roxas. Tell me everything that you know about the system. Once we cover that…I’ll sort of segway into what I wrote before that I haven’t posted yet because this needs to be addressed first.

    (and no, I am not ignoring you, Desert Warrior. You are going to be addressed in other posts...)
     
  14. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    That's alright. Take your time.
     
  15. Mythril Roxas

    Mythril Roxas New Member

    (don't treat me like a child Waterfall ;))

    Karma in a nutshell is "do unto thy neighbor as you wish upon thyself"
    If you do good eeds, then good things will happen to you, if you do bad deeds, strife will rain down upon you.
    In my belief, you want the overall scale balance to be above 0, or a positive good deed net ballance, rather than a net bad deed balance. An overall good deed net balance over so many lifetimes will earn you a doorway back home, to Paradise. If your overall net deed balance is 0 or negative, then you will keep on being reincarnated.
     
  16. Waterfall17

    Waterfall17 New Member

    I would not address a child as address you. I apologize if you feel that I am patronizing you or something. That’s entirely unintentional.

    I’m fully aware that you enjoy processing complex information, if only for the sake of debate…No hard feelings, I hope? I just want you to know that 1) I know that you’re not a child, and I’m not going to treat you like one unless you really want me to, which you obviously don’t as indicated by your comment, and 2) that I am not concerned with “winning” arguments.

    Karma simply needs to be addressed because I need to know where you stand and why you are standing where you stand. I am willing to be open-minded and see what you see. I am willing to consider it until it is proven false. So…it’s just going to take foundation analysis…

    I suppose the point to address now is why you believe in Karma. My perception of your belief in this system is that it can redeem you, or, in other words, that through this system, you can redeem yourself. There is no other path to redemption. Dharma—the set of constructs that classifies certain deeds as good and others as bad—is the code that you would follow, right? Well, who’s to say that code is legitimate? How to distinguish between good and evil? How to know that good and evil exist in the first place?
     
  17. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    I prefer the way Earl (From the TV show 'My Name is Earl) explains it. Kinda like what you said below (In the quote I fixed any spelling mistakes).

     
  18. Mythril Roxas

    Mythril Roxas New Member

    Because, as in your belief of Christianity, we all are born with a consciousness of good and evil. If something we do is wrong, we know deep down that it is wrong. If we do something good, we often feel good about it and/or get good things in return. But you can't EXPECT good things in return, because then the good deed wasn't acomplished with your heart and soul. This is something found in almost all religions.
     
  19. Waterfall17

    Waterfall17 New Member

    Alright. I will not go into too much detail about our having a conscience for the moment, other than to say that this conscience we are born with has not originated from society; therefore moral relativism is out of the loop by default. Society does not determine what is right and what is wrong, and there is a universal standard.

    I suppose that what I am trying to get at is the fact that following doctrine isn’t going to save you. Doing good deeds isn’t enough…and it will never be enough. God is holy, holy, holy. And how He loves!

    What you speak of is reminiscent of Cain. In Genesis, Abel and Cain were brothers, and each one gave a sacrifice to God. Abel gave the best of his flock—one without blemish. Cain gave the very best of the field. But notice that God was displeased with Cain. I always wondered why; Cain brought God the very best that he had. I never understood why God accepted Abel’s sacrifice but rejected Cain’s…until recently. Cain was so upset and angry about it that he murdered his brother….and even after this, God still loved Cain….the point I am attempting to make: Abel obeyed God. Cain didn’t. Abel presented a blood sacrifice (“And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission” Hebrews 9:22 [in reference to sin]), as he was supposed to. Cain did not. Instead, he decided that he could bring whatever he wanted to God; as long as it was his very best effort, it would be acceptable. But clearly this is not the case.

    Similarly, we cannot bring whatever we think is acceptable. Good deeds don’t cover up bad ones. There is no remission of sins without the shedding of blood. This is very apparent throughout the Old Testament. And note this also: that to cover the sins of the Jews there needed to be blood sacrifices every year. This implies that it only covered their sins. It did not wash them away. But the Blood of Jesus washes. In fact, His blood washes as white as snow, and blots out all of our sins. He is the propitiation for our sins.

    Karma insists, as you have stated, that there is a “net” account of good deeds and bad ones. To be in the negative means that the person will be reincarnated to “try again” or something along those lines. Basically, if it's in the negative, that person didn’t do enough good deeds to make the cut. Under this system, bad deeds can be annulled by good ones, at least if the amount and quality of the good ones outweighs the bad. My additional response to this: “There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death” (Proverbs 14:12; 16:25).

    It is right in man’s eyes, but that doesn’t mean that it is right in God’s. We are not judged by man’s standard, but by God’s. Cain’s sacrifice didn’t cut it. Neither will ours today.
     
  20. Mythril Roxas

    Mythril Roxas New Member

    But Abel's did fool! You made the greatest point ever! Abel was excepted by God because he gave the offering with his heart and soul, and Cain did not!! Thats what I am talking about.
    But there is obviously, as you pointed out, the "second chance" rule in the karma system. Someone who has done bad deeds may recover his soul from those deeds if he commits enough good ones.
     

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