Religion

Why ofcourse, we do need to accept and ask for forgiveness by praying to him. I am a Jehova's Witnesses. We do what the bible says, and all what you said is valid. I like your opinion towards Jesus and God.

I see we have smilar believes, but there is a problem with the traditional events. Like Valentine's Day, Holloween, and so on.
Us Jehova's Witnesses we don't celebrate those kidns of traditions because first, they disobey god.

Some say: "But it's nothing offensive"
Ofcourse, nothing offensive on the outside, but if you dig up the origin.. you will find that it has to do with demons and these traditions disobey god.

 

Ok, to be completely honest, I haven't read through this entire thread despite the shortness of its length...but I'm still going to debate, one point at a time. Be sure to keep up

As a warning, speaking to the creator of this thread, if you are going to debate with me, it's going to be hard core. I'm only warning because the close-mindedness issue bothered me...I’ll try to keep it as short as possible.

One other thing before I begin: I'd like to point out something on the subject of closed-mindedness. Rejecting the opinion of others because they seem close-minded (or because they are close-minded) is also close-minded.

Part One:
(1) Mithra was born on December 25th as an offspring of the Sun. Next to the gods Ormuzd and Ahrimanes, Mithra held the highest rank among the gods of ancient Persia. He was represented as a beautiful youth and a Mediator. Reverend J. W. Lake states: "Mithras is spiritual light contending with spiritual darkness, and through his labors the kingdom of darkness shall be lit with heaven's own light; the Eternal will receive all things back into his favor, the world will be redeemed to God. The impure are to be purified, and the evil made good, through the mediation of Mithras, the reconciler of Ormuzd and Ahriman. Mithras is the Good, his name is Love. In relation to the Eternal he is the source of grace, in relation to man he is the life-giver and mediator" (Plato, Philo, and Paul, p. 15).

…Yes, you are correct. This “mithra” is a god. (That is not to say that anyone should worship him.) He is not, however, the Most High God. I think that I need to illustrate first who God is (not speaking right at the moment about His nature, but rather about His triune Being). God is a triune Being: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Note that all are God—the Most High God. In illustrating this, I am revealing that Jesus is not just any “god.” He is the Most High God. So right off, Lake’s statement that the world will be redeemed to “God” is false, because he isn’t talking about God in the right context. He is not referring to God Himself, but someone else that is not actually God, but another god.

Everything needs to be examined in context. I can pull out a section of Scripture and use it to defend a point that I like, but if I am not defending my point in such a way that reflects the true position of God’s Word, I am twisting Scripture, and my point has no validity. Instead, it is a lie.

The same is true in the above case, although it isn’t Scripture. Jesus has contended with spiritual darkness, and has won. He is Light. He is the Way and the Truth. And through Him the people of the world are redeemed to God (if they will receive Him, for the gift of grace must be chosen). He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world…not mithra. Lake's speech is twisted, taking Truth out of context and stating mithra as that light.

The rest of Lake’s statement are also lies. God is Love. Mithra, who is not God, but a god, as I have already pointed out, is not Love. He may have the “highest rank among the gods of Persia” and may have been “represented as a beautiful youth and a Mediator,” but this is based off of a polytheistic system. It is not therefore addressing the ultimate God of the universe, Jehovah. There is one high God. Not many. One.

I can prove these points extensively if you’d like. The Bible is pretty clear, as is Jewish history. Mithra is not God. Therefore, Mithra is not Jesus. Furthermore…

Jesus is the Word of God: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it” (John 1:1-5, NKJV)… “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth” (John 1:14, NKJV).

Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega—the First and the Last. He is the Beginning and the End. He was before mithra.

About the whole 25th piece: it is not proven that Jesus was born on the 25th of month 12. In fact, many suspect that He was not. (If you want direct evidence for this I’ll be glad to supply you.) But this is beside the point anyway, because I just demonstrated that it’s irrelevant to this argument as to when He was born. God planned this universe, this world, this chain of events, this story (call it what you will) from the end to the beginning. He is the Beginning and the End. Jesus is not restricted by a date in time, which He supersedes simply by His nature as the second Person in the Trinity.

 

That's a good explanation. But I might as well talk about something.

How so? Halloween it'self doesn't disobey God. Hallow's Eve is just the night before All Saint's Day (or All Soul's Day. I forget which one).

I wonder why people don't think of that. They just choose December 25 because it's easy. I don't know if He was born on that day. He could have been. But there isn't enough proof to say when He was born.

 

...Oops. Haha, that's actually hilarious. None of what I just said is supposed to be on this thread. (It's supposed to be on the mithra one MythrilRoxas [?] started.) I thought I added it to the other one...? I'm sorry, that really has nothing to do with what we're talking about. ...And yet, it somehow does. How did that even work out?!

Oh boy. Don't get me started on halloween. Or valentine's day. Actually, pretty much any holiday...unless that's actually staying on topic. I would assume that something like holidays should be moved to another thread. One holiday per thread would be a good idea. I might just do that, but I haven't had a lot of time to research...sometimes being a student is difficult

 

actually holidays have a lot to do with religion, so go on if you'd like, I'm all earz.

 

...not to lessen the seriousness of the topic at hand, but due rather to a lack of time to research each holiday to its fullest (do you know how many books and websites they have on them?!), I'll just post this poem that I wrote to give a basic idea of what I think about v-day. It's a bit odd, and in my favorite form--free verse. I think that there are a good many things that I could do to improve the poem...but for now, it's going to remain as it is.

Beloved

I see hearts…
lace hearts, paper hearts, candy hearts,
red hearts, pink hearts,
blood
the blood of goats,
priests anointed with the blood of their sacrifices.

I see arrows that cherubim do not hold,
whips of skin that cry “februa”,
but chant the traditions of men, the traditions of the world.
The cherubim do not hold the arrows,
the arrows of ravenous indulgence, of insatiable gluttony.

I see leavened falseness bubbling over with lies,
shaped and cooled with deceit;
Beloved, remember that a little leaven leavens the whole lump.

I see hearts…
lace hearts, paper hearts, candy hearts,
red hearts, pink hearts,
But I want to see repentant, broken hearts.

Hearts…
no hearts
broken hearts
heartless
my brethren are made to stumble-
lupercalia

 

really cool, but whats the inner meaning? that V-day is bad?
And what do these wordz mean?:
lupercalia
februa

Is februa Febuary?

 

Yes. There are many pagan roots to all of the major holidays (except for the Jewish holidays and the more recent ones like Veteran's Day).

Februa is a root of the month February. It's meaning implies purification. When I wrote about the skin, I meant that the priests held these and cried out februa as a purification ritual (but obviously I also stated that it's not going to clean anything).

And I hate when people disgrace cherubim...so annoying. You seriously think that an angel is going to look like that? Honestly...

Lupercalia is in reference to what the day was called. I have much more research to do on this subject, as I do in all the other holidays, but right now I simply do not have the time. I debate because I am hopeful that it will be edifying, and because I'm a Philosophy minor (and enjoying thinking and debating and learning in general).

Essentially I am rebuking the church for their hypocrisy, and informing the world about the reality of what people celebrate annually as valentine's day. The discussion about hearts is more satyrical than the rest of the piece, but even this is expressed in all gentleness (yet still firm rebuke).

 

Lets get this thread going again.

 

Guopo brought it back lol

 

If I recall even chirstmas is a pagan holiday, and Jesus was actually born around Easter, in which christians celebrate his "re-birth". its all quite confusing actually.

 

Christmas is a pagan holiday. Most people just don't want to admit it.

I agree that celebrating the Lord's birth is great and all, but I think it's important to remember that saying we celebrate for Jesus with an idol is not really celebrating Him at all! Pagan traditions don't "Christianize" themselves. They are still idols....

As for His resurrection, my sentiments remain the same. That's also a pagan holiday...e. Eggs, bunnies, and sexual ritual things do NOT glorify God nor do they indicate our celebration of the Lord's resurrection. Jewish holidays are good (meaning acceptable to God)...in the sense that they are not praising idols and such. Pagan ones obviously, then, are not.

I still celebrate the Lord's resurrection, but not the way most people do, including my brethren.

 

interesting you say all of that. These dates have significance, i.e. December 25 = Winter Solstus, kinda odd eh? But elaborate more so on YOUR beliefs. You are a PROFOUND christian on this site, so I find it funny how you are breaking away on something that more Christians take seriously than anything else...
I'd like to know why.

 

I honestly don't think anybody truly knows the day Jesus was born. Heck, it could be on January 1st for all we know.

Of course, I've never heard of any proven research where somebody discovered the actual day.

 

...I will...I just need a bit more time. 1:14 am. Not bad. It will take a while to explain, though, and I have classes until 5 tomorrow. I'm sorry about that.

 

Im not claiming to know. Last time I looked it up, thats what it said.

 

My conscience convicts me in these things—the celebration of holidays with pagan origins. I just can’t do it. I will never have anything like a christmas tree or e. eggs in my house. I will not place these things before a holy God, and I will not provide my brethren with an example that could potentially hurt them.

I think of these things, among others:

“Little children, keep yourself from idols. Amen” (I John 5:21).

Thus says the LORD: "Do not learn the way of the Gentiles; Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven, For the Gentiles are dismayed at them. For the customs of the peoples [are] futile; For [one] cuts a tree from the forest, The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not topple. They [are] upright, like a palm tree, And they cannot speak; They must be carried, Because they cannot go [by themselves]. Do not be afraid of them, For they cannot do evil, Nor can they do any good" (Jeremiah 10:2-5).

Sounds like a christmas tree to me. Just saying.

I agree with the “kind of odd” bit…and understand the tone. I don’t believe in “coincidence.” It is my belief that the holiday was originally pagan—and still is pagan…--and that in order to attract more people, or to illustrate cultural acceptance, the holiday was “Christianized.”

[As a note on cultural acceptance: cultural relativity (anti-ethnocentrism) and moral relativity are two very different things. Basically, we are called to reach out to other people in a culturally relevant manner as Jesus did; however, this does not mean that we waver on biblical standards of morality. If a culture thinks murder is fine, obviously we cannot agree with that as Christians, understanding that biblically it is sinful to murder. In the same manner, people worship God differently in different cultures. When they cross a biblical standard, though, like the incorporation of idols, it is no longer acceptable, and should be refuted. I can explain this in more detail—and more eloquently—if needed.]

The emphasis was placed on the Son instead of the Sun (sol invictus. Sound familiar? It’s one of the names for mithras). However, none of the practices changed!! How can I worship God with pagan rituals?! It doesn’t make any sense. It dishonors Him to worship Him with the pagan idols, symbols, and rituals, and I will have no part in it.

Although I disagree adamantly with my brethren, I still love them, and can only encourage them to see that at least the christmas tree part should not be incorporated…nor the yule log thing.

I admittedly have a great amount of research to complete on the subject. I have collected a good amount of information on various holidays, but I need a lot more. I am open-minded to the idea that I could be entirely wrong. But until someone proves it/God reveals to me otherwise, I’m not changing.

 

Didn't the Pagan's worship spirits more than idols? Well.. Wait that depends on the religion. Most Native American's had totem poles, and anyone who belonged to a polytheism -such as the Greeks- had temples and statues. But then wouldn't that make most churches and houses wrong for having statues and miniatures of Jesus on the cross or of Mary?

 

This is completely bullshit Starlight Bright Stuff. Or w/e your name is. This has nothing to do with Religion. You just found pictures that look like something, or what you want them to be. "GIVE US REAL PROOF"

 

well, but still, both religion and science needed in our life..

religion could give us strength and power in order for us to face many problems in our life..

and science exist, to prove how almighty GOD is..