Religion

Um... Hare. About God banishing Lucifer, that was in the Old Testament. In the Old days with Moses, if you sin, (I don't know if I'm saying this right, so please correct me because I'm trying to remember what I was taught.) you die right there on the spot depending on that sin. In the new testament however, because of Jesus dieing for our sins, we can really repent. In the old testament, we was also able to repent in those days too.

 

So you're telling me that God can be wrong?

 

I agree with you Suno. I believe God let nature pulls he strings too. I also believe he wants to see what we can make the world into. I think he wants to see if we humans can ever get to world peace. We can ever make a world without war. A world fit for a god. Think about it, he wants to see if we can make a perfect world.

 

No. God is never wrong. He dislike sin & hates it. Hates disobedience, killing, stealing, but he definitely hates blasphemy & suicide. Do Blasphemy or suicide & he difinitely will not forgive you for that. You have a lot of choices. Either you serve him so you can gain eternal life & save your soul or be damned & suffer God's wrath. God is righteous & is for justice.

 

I agree with Brandon. He is justice, no, something above justice and divine justice. He is ETERNAL JUSTICE!

 

But by saying in the old days we commit a sin we died on the spot, and then saying after Jesus' death, we are able to repent, you are telling me God was wrong. Because now all of the sudden he's tired of us committing sin and dying he kills his son -which by your statement he hates- to absolve us of sin ... That's just a loop hole so you turn a blind eye to him being wrong.

And if he hates sin, disobedience, killing, stealing, blasphemy and suicide why did he create it? Why did he allow us the choice to forsake him and his glory? And why do you need the temptation of glory in eternal paradise to avoid these things and suffer the wrath of a God who's all loving?

You've just said he hates things we do. Yet loves us. Then why did he allow us the choice of displeasing him?

 

"God-only knows." (kind of ironic).

I can't answer this question, nor can anyone, because no one knows or understands God's motives...but the fact that we don't know doesn't mean God doesn't exist, or doesn't have motives that do make sense...it means people suck. xD

Another important, similar question (again, assuming God exists) is "Why did God create people in the first place?"

(It's a bad conclusion to be made, that many people make...don't fall into that trap.)

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The only thing I have to correct is the notion of "God wants to see if people make the right choices" :

If God exists, isn't He God? Why does God bend to a human's whim?

Why does an all-knowing God, not know whether people can do it or not? Why does God depend on people to find out if people can do it?

EDIT: One more thing...

This isn't true SB...I mean think about it. Everyone sinned, except Christ (and some believe Mary, his mother, also did not sin but it's irrelevant). That's what made Christ special!

So taking as an example, Moses sinned...infact, he killed a man, and that's written all over in Exodus. Pretty big sin right?

If he died on the spot...how did he go on to lead the Jewish people from Egypt, and receive the 10 commandments on Mt. Sinai?

 

That last statement is why I believe God is like a kid with text books. Just because he knows doesn't sate him. He wants to see.

 

He doesn't need to depend. Its like a game. To see if we can do it. I wonder, will we be able to finish game?

 

But that's what Mike is pointing out. Shouldn't he already know?

 

But isn't it more likely that we simply can't figure it out? What makes you think His motives are as you expect, even given what you're discussing?

Like sure, if you believe we can figure it all out there's not much else I can say...but I don't think you're saying that right?

EDIT: Yes, saying it's like a game, and God 'needs to find out' because He doesn't know, means God depends on us for something...but by definition, He should know everything.

 

Thats a good question. He probably already knows, he just wants to watch it.

 

But then you're saying God needs us for entertainment or something like that...

Even in that scenario God depends on us.

(Again to point out that people do not know why God created us...and any speculation is likely incorrect...but the fact that we can't suggest a good reason, doesn't mean one doesn't exist)

 

I don't know what to say ok? I'm just saying what I believe in. Please don't get frustrated or mad me please.

 

I'm not frustrated or mad...I'm just trying to show you something. :\

Of course you don't know what to say...I'm saying no human being in the history of time would know how to answer this question.

And even more important, the fact that we cannot answer this question does not mean an answer does not exist.

 

Thats true. We humans can never contemplate any of God's motives. We'll just be here in the world sitting in the dark.

 

Precisely...and that's part of the agnostic perspective that Haresuno practices.

(Haresuno: Correct me if I'm wrong) Agnostics are kind of humble...it's like, they don't deny the existence of God, or assume the existence of God. They know their limitations and that human attempts to understand God are futile so they don't expect to.

 

I'm not trying to be agnostic. I just think us humans will always be in darkness. Because our nature we'll never head towards to the light.

 

I would say agnostics are humble. Anyone can be. It's often a practice of many religions to be humble however people teach it wrong and then you get people who continue to dilute the original teachings.

It's like Kiria here. His religion teaches to accept people for who they are and the mysteries of God as they are. They ask for blind faith in God that everything is according to his plan. However when you get people who dilute those teachings you get people who pity others who do not follow that set religion and talk to others as if they're stupid and always wrong for the way they live.

And depending on what form of Agnosticism depends on your views. I -for example- am not against the idea of there being a God, however I am do not say there is a God for sure. This is the view of an Agnostic Theist. Agnostic atheists are the people who say "If there is a God, great, but right now there is no proof before me so I'm going to say there isn't."

 

@dark knight Genesis: (You seem to believe in God, what religion, if any, do you practice? I'm going to guess Christianity, but correct me if I'm wrong)

The Christian message (and I mean the true Christian message, none of this televangelism or showboaty kind of Christianity) is that because of original sin, man has an empty spirit. Man now has trouble discerning between right and wrong, and makes mistakes.

It comes down to opinion/gut feelings whether or not human beings are inherently dark (I tend to agree, but I don't think that's the best attitude to have and I'm trying to change this). Again, the Christian message, says that we are influenced by evil (as evidence by original sin). The devil (which may or may not be literal) can appeal to our evil side, and tempt us to sin...but he can also appeal to our 'good' side, and essentially trick us.

The point is that we're essentially 'lost causes.' This is why Christians believe it was necessary for Christ to come and make such a big sacrifice...Christ essentially 'pulled us back into the light.'

(This does not mean 'people went to hell before Christ' or anything like that, as SB had mentioned before...but I won't go into details right now).

So to add to your notion...human nature tends toward the darkness, yes (at least I believe this also)...but it is God's good nature that pulls us back to the light.

(I'm personally of the opinion that God designed the universe with every single being in mind...and that we will all eventually attone for our sins and be with Him...even Satan (should he exist)).

EDIT:

The problem with this reasoning (I know it's not yours) is that if something is proven...it's proven. There's no faith involved. So the argument 'I'll believe when there's some proof' really is kind of dense. You won't believe, you'll know...lol.

Silly people.