Religion

Great minds think alike, Mike and Mythril Roxas. So ya, we all friendzzz!

 

I hate to be this guy, but isn't this a case of pot kettle black? And yes, I realize this post I'm currently posting is also not contributing much...but I have been contributing thus far.

 

I have to agree with you. And no worries, harsh posts are the best.

 

They neccessarily make your points more "attractive"

 

I'm glad you understand.

Now shall we stop spamming?

 

lolz, never!!!!

 

Okay back on to task. If I may make a new topic for the debate:

What is the difference between Religious Truth & Literate Truth?

 

The answer to that question should be remotely short and simple, but the thinking of might be a bit hard.

 

See, there are these things I find attractive called women. xD Yes, I'm making a joke...seems kind of out of character for me, haha.


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Ok, new idea...I've stated it before, and Mythril_Roxas alluded to it, but I don't think Sovieto quite got what he meant so I'll state the idea here...if I misunderstood M_R, forgive me...just pretend in that case, that this is my bold new idea:

Every religion's concept of a higher power, be it the God of Judaiism, Christianity, Islam, Greek gods, Pagan** gods, Karma, whatever it is...points to one central idea: a higher power (I'm being captain obvious).

This higher power is the central theme of any religion...including science (yes, science is a religion...though it need not be mutually exclusive with respect to other religions). However in a strictly scientific belief, the higher power takes on other forms. Human consciousness, creation (from say the Big Bang), evolution, all of these unprovable ideas...are God.

As in any religion, these things are what I call God...which isn't necessarily the Christian, etc. God.

What do you guys feel?



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**Pagan, for those that don't know, is not a term synonymous with evil. It's actually an umbrella term, like "Christian" meaning "not Christian, Muslim or Jewish." So buddhists are pagan, Hindus are pagan, etc...and it's really not an insult.

 

Okay, let's just ignore my post then.

 

OMG mike making a joke? :O

Ok, i dont believe science is a religion but more religion a way of exlaining the unexplianable

Very drunk, will sort out this post in the morn...

 

I honestly believe that God is an actual spiritual being, literally. However, I do know everything was created by god.

 

??? I don't get it, are we stopping?

 

But science aims to do precisely the same thing...the difference is, that science follows many peoples' agreed upon rules, moreso than one person's personal belief.

String Theory? We can never observe it, all we know is there's some math that makes sense in a universe with strings. But is the universe actually full of strings?

What about our current model of the atom? We used to believe in what's called the raisin-cake model of the atom...now we know this is false, and that electrons are actually dynamic. So then we improved our model, and now it can account for more things...but does this prove that this is the correct model?

No, it certainly doesn't...someday, we may come up with an improvement.
-Do you believe our current model of the atom is the correct one?
-Do you believe our current model of the atom is the incorrect one?

Gotta believe one of them...and in either case you're believing something without proof. This is merely going on a personal hunch, or gut feeling...which is no different than having a gut feeling about God. It's just as 'foolish' (ie. not very).

Furthermore, do you believe that if this is false, then human beings are capable of finding the flaw and 'upgrading' the model? This is completely absurd to me...as is the concept of God to you Pulse (I hope I'm not confusing you with someone else).

In the words of the great Steven Hawking: "Who cares if it's true, so long as science can make predictions, is falsifiable and reproducible." (ie. the requirements for something to be scientific, and useful.) The belief that it's true is exactly that: a belief.

In this sense, since it involves a collection of people believing in unprovable things with some rules involved, science is a religion. But note that I said it is not necessarily mutually exclusive: Many religious people also believe in science.

The problem though, is that most people think everything in science is 100% true...which is a fallacy. In fact, I'm in the process of writing a book that tries to establish this fact.

The theme is: Every belief system is axiomatizable, and every belief has axioms. (axioms of course, meaning unprovable assumptions)

Yep, I believe this too...except I believe that everyone's 'slightly wrong.' The Christian God let's say, is closest to how I picture God (personally), but I believe everyone sees (at most) only one side of God...so we kind of have to piece together the picture by looking at all the different clues.

Some people however, try to deliberately throw a wrench into the gears...and as I've mentioned before, people fall victim to Schadenfreude.

 

I know how I see God and that will never change. I wont post how I see god because i think that is something personal. But let me assure you, i see god in a positive manner. I see nothing wrong in god.

 

Aye...I base my idea of God around perfection...without sin, and that we cannot fathom being improved upon. That in some sense, is my decision procedure for what seems nonsensical to me, in terms of religious dogma.

EDIT: Note also that I said this is the closest to how I picture God...not that it is how I picture God. Feel free to point out flaws in the Christian God, I've done that before...and then I've adjusted how I see God. But that was still my starting point.

 

Some pretty big words you're using there. I may not know the definition of some words of your post, but if what I understand is correct, then I completely agree.

 

Basically means, my thought process is as follows:

-I have some belief in mind of how I picture God...
-Oh wait, I can now imagine a slightly superior version of God...that is, superior to the one I just pictured.
-Then my previous one must have been wrong.
-So I discard my previous idea, and accept my new one (and repeat, as soon as I can come up with a superior idea).

 

Due to that alone I pull from this debate, that is my belief, thus a "religion" (oh dear).

 

Exactly Pulse...I can't quite tell if that's sarcasm or not, but I hope not.

The only point I'm trying to make is that many people put all their eggs in one basket, because they're conditioned not to think for themselves. This includes people from all walks of life, and all beliefs...theists and atheists alike.

The religious side of the coin is obvious...people believe in God with no proof. So onto the scientific, with another example:

F = ma? Why is it true? IS it even true? (the answer is no...newton's laws have a more general formulation). How many people foolishly accept this one idea even, as scientific truth, without any proof? Many many, many people do.

Not to self promote again, but my book intends to deal with misconceptions in both, science and religion...in other words, I'm trying to write a book on Critical Thinking.

It isn't until one is trained as a scientist that one really begins to think critically about science, and really understand that we're only approximating things. (Pulse: Did you ever take Analytical Mechanics, or any other type? Namely dealing with such little tidbits as ellipsoids of inertia, and how if you throw a ball up in the air, it actually falls a certain distance away from its starting point...It's 99% approximations! They work, but they're certainly not true).