Religion

good to see you back Mike (even if you have me on ignore ^_^). No hard feelingz from before I hope!

So you believe everything is false? Everything we believe in is not real, or cannot be proven? Bold, but its funny. You see.....I agree with you 100%.

I've not heard of it, seems pretty sweet, but I agree that we must create life before we prove how life was created.

your right again Mike. EVERYONE BELIEVES IN SOMETHING. It makes everyone different. Some beliefs are similiar, but deep down are different, and otherz are complete opposites. But all "believe".

Whats your point though? So, all believe in something, but thats what keeps everyone "happy". believing keeps people 'in line', 'in order', keeps them 'grounded'. Do you believe in believing? Or do you believe in chaos?

I see, so your saying that people believe in things that they assume are 100% truth, but really are only 99.9, or 80, or 23 % truth?

What could do that Mike? Anti-gravity matter? Plasma? Unknown elements? Interesting things, but ahead of our time. Maybe you'll be the one to discover these thingz.

As said though a lot are bad. I think most have a good meaning, but don't realize "100%" what they're preaching and teaching.

interesting. I believe in this somewhat, thats like the first puzzle piece there Mike.

and as you know this is false. Thats were Christianity pisses me off, when they try to force you in a corner into believing in their beliefs.

weird.....lol

 

Nah man...I'm not sure why I was banned though, seems like a mistake. Oh well, probably a blessing in disguise...I had to finish up my final exams and such anyway.

I think there's just an important distinction to be made between 'provability' and truth. Something may be true, but not provable, or false but not provably false. So in this last post I was basically trying to establish the idea that science is not all logically sound...there is some faith involved in basic principles, needed to 'prove' anything scientifically (also known as a corelation).

The LHC is basically the world's most powerful particle accelerator...it's almost like a 'velodrome' where particles whip around and can be smashed into each other, and measurements taken. If I'm not mistaken, they wish to discover a new particle known as the Higgs Boson...which I hope they can demonstrate the existence of, personally. It will piece together an important gap in science, namely how do massless particles 'clump together' (basically) and form something with mass??? It's kind of a black box.

But even the existence of a Higgs Boson is pretty far from determining how we were formed. It may fit into some conventional theories, but again, proving these theories is rather cumbersome (ie. impossible)

I believe that people bicker over pointless things...that's one of the main philosophies I take to heart, peacefulness. So what if someone is say, an atheist, thinks I'm a buffoon, believes I will only be proven wrong, and all that jazz. In the words of the Myth Busters: "I reject your reality, and accept my own."

In other words, I think people need to see the common ground they share...everyone gravitates to a belief. Every belief besides the ones I have seem 'silly' to me. Belief in God seems silly to people grounded in science, belief in science (and in the capabilities of human beings) seems preposterous to me. Everyone has that in common.

I do think though, that people share that schadenfreude outlook on life...ie. taking comfort in others' misery. As you Mythril_Roxas, I'm a pessimist and look down on people. But I believe people can get past this, and I hope they do (though I don't expect it).

(By the way, I see you posting a lot of stuff in regards to government...which leads me to believe you're gung-ho in regards to the NWO and conspiracy theories...you're in good company, though kh-3.net is probably not the best place to discuss that)

No, again this is me trying to make the distinction between truth and provability. Something is always 100% true...however, nothing we can experience is 100% provable. Even in math, where things are provable given assumptions, we can't the assumptions (and therefore assertions).

I.e. If + behaves like we think it does, then 2+2=4. If we assume + behaves like it does, then we can prove 2+2=4. But proving + behaves in such a way (and thus that 2+2=4) is difficult, and requires other assumptions (which may not be provable).

EDIT: One theory I do have though, is that the 'flaw of the mind,' the retason that self-reference automatically turns into a paradox is that there may be a 'third' (or possibly infinitely many) alternatives to true and false. They may not make sense, but perhaps there is such a thing as being '25% true.'

I think our experiences are independent of math/physics/etc. These are just human explanations of observable phenomena. (I do believe math is sound...but I can wake up and smell the coffee and realize it's not provably so, unfortunately) So I don't think anything will 'change' except for how we look at reality...it could very well turn how we experience things inside out. Gravity? Objects pulling on each other? Untrue! (infact, mathematically, gravity is objects 'falling' into ridges in spacetime...there is no 'pulling' involved)

Can you elaborate a bit?

 

lol, I remember I got band a while back to. Its good to have you back though dude. Your really a smart guy.

I think I gotya.

freakin' awesome.

Everyone does. Thats the ultimant truth to "good people", they'll be open minded and listen to you, but they might not neccesarily "convert" to what you believe, and even if you prove them wrong they'll still believe in their proven wrong belief. Open mindedness and stubborness, thats what I am truthfully at least.

true.

Its funny that so many of you think I'm a pessimist. I believe that "the truth is ugly", and that the reality and truth in mysteries of the universe all lead back to the corruption of man and how much evil surrounds us. It really does. Just turn on the news. "5 people dead in Milwakee, 100 soldiers died in bomb explosion"...........life can be depresing. But if you ever met me, you'd think I'd be an optimist, I'm very happy and I joke around all the time. I look for the good in people, but in my life I can't seem to find it as much as the bad. Even so, I still keep on searching....

I know, and how'd you know I was into that stuff? Was it obvious? Uh-oh.........well anyways, I'll try to keep it on the down low. But what do you mean I'm in good company?

okay, sorry

I don't think there is such a thing as "25% true". Thats my opinion anyway.

Deep down, I really think Christianity is one of the biggest jokes of all time. I'm no athiest, far from it. I just think that once you do your homewrok on all religion, you see 'Christianity' in a different light.

 

I mean I'm into the same stuff, haha. Codex Alimentarius, European Union, Microchips, all that jazz. Like I said though, for reasons that are obvious to you I'm sure, this is hardly a place to discuss such things.

It's probably untrue, you're right...I mean, it certainly doesn't seem that way, right? Then you can say "how true is the statement, 'this statement is 25% true?' " and other such problems...just an idea I've been rolling around in my head trying to deal with self-reference.

It's ironic that I chose Christianity after doing my homework...hahaha.

Well...I'm of the opinion that you should 'sample' ideas from many different sources. I try to just embrace the ideas that seem to make sense to me at the moment. I find a lot of the ideas behind Christianity comforting...if interpreted the right way, it's a very peaceful religion. (Plenty of people misinterpret, and try to convert as many as they can...this is far from peaceful)

 

Really! Thats cool. I didn't think anyone on this site was into that stuff. But of course, Big Brother is always watching, so its not smart to talk about such things here, even if there were more people into that stuff on this site. But really, thats cool that you know about all that.

right, I see what your sayin'.

basically, after you've "done your homework", you come upon a forked road. You have "2 options". The first, a universal outlook on how everything is similiar in the sense that "All Gods R The Same God", meaning Jesus=Budha=Horus=Mythra=Hercules=Allah=Ahura Mazda=Krishna(Vishnu)=God. All gods are the same god, and it seems maybe (sorry if I'm wrong, I am only assuming your choice, please tell me if I'm wrong so I can better understand your religious view. You've left me a little confused, but thats good, I like playing guessing games. Its "good sport".) you have taken that route.

The other path leads into a more difficult/"pessemistic" view, the view that all things are "bad", that all of god is not god, but "higher beings" that I'm sure your aware of due to your knowledge in the conspiracies of the NWO. That all religions are "false" and that everyone you know is a fool to the handy work of none other than the devil himself made flesh by a curse that brought us all here in the beginning of the universal time. That Righteousness is the true god, that karma is the Judgement rule that controls our souls "afterlife". I am a strong believer in god. I only ask:"Who is god?"

It wants peace for those who believe in it. Anyone who doesn't believe in "Jesus" is like dirt. To Christians, heretics like me, deserve eternal death.

I agree, and thats one of the main reasons I don't like Christianity. They're 2 dogmatic. They will never find peace, they teach people how to be "closed minded" without the person even knowing.

 

This is almost what I believe, but not quite...the difference is, I'm a pessimist in terms of peoples' capabilities. The way I see it, either people are just some bubbling by-product of evolution, and thus have no reason or expectancy, to be competent thinkers...or God made us, and we are below some higher power. In either case, I don't think too highly of the human mind...it's very easily damaged, and quite flawed...the human psychology's full of more holes than swiss cheese.

Instead, what I believe is that everybody has some inner force, pulling them to God...and by God I don't mean the God from Christianity, or Islam or anything like that, I mean the real God, not subject to interpretation. Everyone has their opinions, dogma, etc. regarding God, but the way I see them, everyone's 'a little right' and 'a little wrong.' The only thing we have is our gut feeling, which I believe God gives all of us.

If you're meant to believe in a Christian God, then God will make that choice available to you. If you're meant to believe in science, let's say so you make some big scientific discovery, then God makes that available.

In other words, I think all religious worship (even science) is a path to God...some paths may be more 'correct' than others, but they all get there in the end. (Infact that's what I believe...that God made us all for heaven. If it's because of Christ that we can go to Heaven, awesome...but if not, that's also awesome) I don't think it's fair that someone is to be eternally damned for being born in say, China where religious worship (ie. in Christ) is illegal, or in some kind of Aztec tribe or something...so my gut tells me that that's not true.

Believe it or not, I think my belief's a hybrid of these two ideas (as described in the previous paragraphs). The question "Who is God" is probably the toughest question ever posed.

I chose Roman Catholicism for this reason (there are other things to call into question however, such as having one head of the church...I've given these lots of thought, don't worry). Many people seem to think Catholics fit this same stereotype, but it's actually a very accepting religion from what I've found...and even if 99.999% of Catholics aren't, I most certainly am, so that's what counts.

To this, one of the worst accusations made against Catholics are the Crusades...and ironically the (protestant) Christians are the loudest people condemning Catholics for it...except that the Crusades happened before the formation of the Protestant churches...so they're really just pointing the fingers at the crowd of people they're in (which seems silly to me).

 

Interesting, and I'd have to say I agree. Humans are flawed, in every sense of the word. We don't deserve to be, thus here we are. Damnation=Punishment, and we deserve Punishment.

Like magnetism......

Yeah, I'd kinda agree with that. God pulls us to him, but we have to choose to give into the pull, or to go the other way. I believe though that there is an ultimant truth, and everything else is a lie. I'm close to "finding" this ultimant truth, I've got some if not all of the puzzle pieces, I just gotta put them in the right order.

There are many "paths to God", but there are few that are the "correct path".

Mine is to, leaning more to the second option. "Who is God?", the question can be answered, and you yourself have answered it Mike, but you need to realize your own belief and trust in it. Thats the key to Paradise, "a good afterlife"...

I was a Lutheran, and once I started to "do my homework", I found myself in a chaotic situation. I hated Christianity, and myself for a long time.

Thats why I don't like Christianity, all the hypocrosy.

 

Didn't they break that before they could use it?

 

It sure did...but that's because of faulty expectations I think. Might be for the best anyway...a 'black hole machine' is kind of dangerous.

*eerie music* It's set to reopen in a couple of months.

 

lol, haha, I hope it works this time...

 

Here's how I see religion:

Nowadays there are too many religions religions. The catholics contradict themselves in so many ways. Aswell as every other false religion. They take advantage of people who dont know any better.

 

thats my problem with religion to. Thats why I don't go to church....

 

to many reloigons are alike anyways catholics,christans,and the jewish share basicly the same reloigon but the details are a little off.anyway all relions genarly have a central theme : if u be bad something bad will happen to you if your good something good will happen to you just like santa claus

 

thats the "morality" all religions share, and that is the basic rule of "karma", but thats not entirely true. Not all religoins neccesarily "teach" that as a central theme. Especially not Christians, Muslims, Jews, or Buddhists. They all believe you need "other" elements.

 

I think you're wrong about the Buddist part. If I recall correctly, karma is the main thing for them. So they become reborn into something better until they achieve Nirvana.

 

wtf?

Your very wrong. First of all not all religions based their teachings off the bible, which proves your whole theory wrong. I dont really need to keep proving you wrong since i just proved your whole theory wrong, but i guess i'll have a little fun.

There is no "central theme". All religions who base off their teachings off the bible, interpret the bible in different ways than eachother. But the worst, the worst of them all (no offense to anyone), are the catholics. They contradict themselves in many ways. One example is that the bible states that no one may add aditional books/sections to the bible, but they have added there own. If any of you want, i could keep on with this forever.

And wtf about santa claus? He doesnt even exist.

Sorry if i sound harsh, but im not even trying to be mean. Its just so hard to see someones expression over the internet since your not talking to them face to face. I actually meant to say that in a nice way.

 

Oh, yeah, my bad. But they have no central theme of "god" anyway, they're like peaceful athiests who have a central "figure", Buddha, and they call themselves a religion.

True, but 3 of the 5 world religions do. Thats a significant amount of people, but I get your point....

there is and there isn't. God is a central theme. Its all different from there.

This is very very true, but they all have the Bible as a central "theme". teachings differ, but that whole "central theme" stays the same....

an opinion. Some think Muslims are the worst, because they are radical terrorists, and are like cave men to technology (which is hypocritical considering what they did on 9/11). Some think Protestants are the worst, most other Bible based religions consider them the Pagan version of Christianity. Others say Jews are the worst, and that they control the world because they're like Elitists and they are rich. But for the most part, I agree with you, Catholics are the worst....... Thats just an opinion. I don't like Christianity as a whole....

people contradict themselves in many ways. Its a part of our sinful nature.

And they subtract! Anyone? The Apocrohitical books? You see, Christianity is a joke!! Its all a lie!(not really, just their interpretation)

I know, I know, I've been yelled at and banned before because people take things the wrong way, But hey, thats life, just deal woth it. As long as the other person understands.

 

Still, my statement remains true. And there are more religions than just 5. A religion can be one persons point of view toward the bible.

You wrong since in some religions or mythical beleifs there are more than one god. So the 'central theme' in those religions would be the different gods. So that lets us know that there is no central theme overall...

But they still do things differently, so my statement remains true.

Those are different peoples' aspects and opinions. Only one religion I know of is the one that truly interprets the bible the correct way, and those are the jehova's witnesses. There are people who interpret the bible correctly who arent jehova's witnesses, but they get the whole idea.

They have and they could, but its not part of the imperfection the way you think it is. Its because some people are stupid enough to contradict themselves. Because their imperfection is at a higher percent than others.

They think they are christians, but they are not.

Because people take the internet too seriously...

 

look at the post again Sovieto, I said world religions. There are many religions, I know, I studied almost all of them. I'm talking about the main 5, the 5 world religions (aka:Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism).

Um....no, your wrong. "god" IS the central theme, whether it be many or one (akaolyotheistic or monotheistic). Its still the repeated theme of "god"......duh?

They're just different versions of a TV. Theres teh flat screen, the plasme, an old one with rabit ears, and one that you can't even tell its a TV. They're all TV's, just different kinds. So no, your statement is only 'partially' true.

so your a Jehova witness? Interesting.

There is no way to interpret the Bible correctly because the Bible in and of itself is a twisted and corrupted book. Its been changed to the point that we don't know who Jesus really is, or any of the people in the Bible for that matter. Corruption, remember that.

So what your saying is that their are imperfections that are in a sense 'elite'? Thats a bit hypocritical? I know what you mean, you just need to word it a little better....

Oh, Catholics are Christian, you can't take them away from that! Many people are "phonies", they just don't know it due to their "impefection".

yeah, most dorks who have no life take their "internet life" seriously. Thats why I don't like it when people say:"Oh, I disagree with you, so go kill yourself", becasue you don't know who your talking to exactly, and they might go and kill themselves....

 

What I'm confused about is why you point the finger at Catholics and not "Christians" (as a whole). Since Protestant (Christians) are essentially 'children' of Catholics...namely, all Protestants were Catholics prior to Martin Luther...then your accusation that the Catholic scripture is (at least) in part falsified implies that all Christian religions, whose books are inherited and then modified further are also (at least) in part falsified.

EDIT: Besides, the belief that scripture is the 'standalone way to God' is a Protestant belief. Catholics have always had a bit of a scripture/traditional mixture (since Catholics believe their lineage came directly from Christ, tradition is important and should be preserved (it has been desecrated since then, but that's another story)). This mixture is part of what motivated the protestant movement in the first place...they placed 100% emphasis on the bible.

It's like me making some new religion, changing the emphasis of religion to 'shaving your head' then condemning all the Christians who have hair. In my religion, this is perfectly valid, but if your religion doesn't believe this is important, then I just look like an idiot enforcing this rule. It doesn't make you 'wrong' nor does it make me wrong. It's just differing beliefs. (Though I did use a particularly silly example, deliberately).

EDIT: Just thought I'd add this disclaimer...when I say 'you' or 'your' religion, I don't specifically mean you, Sovieto. I mean it in a general context. (I've actually upset people before by not making this distinction)