1. If you are having trouble logging in, check the box, "stay logged in" to fix the issue. Thanks! —KHP Staff
  2. Hi Guest, you may have noticed that we aren't khplanet.com anymore. For more information on why these changes are happening, check out our thread, Site Re-Brand Updates

Analyzing Bonds

Discussion in 'General Kingdom Hearts' started by Derek, May 2, 2017.

  1. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]

    Okay, so I got into some interesting talks with someone from KHPlanet.com and with my friend @blackosprey over shippers in the series. We delved into interesting territory and it got my mind thinking. I’ve been around since KH1 launched in 2002, I’ve see nearly two decades of this now but I’ve never put it into analytical view like I did theories…until now.
    You see, I’m not much of a shipper myself. I’ve never really had a good view of such sub groups. Especially after the way the fans of Bleach & Naruto had behaved recently. I would never say it’s wrong, but I do feel it’s given too much importance. People base their entire feelings on a series out of two characters, regardless of whether it’s even a genre of story that focuses on romance or not, and then throw tantrums when it doesn’t work out.

    This baffles me. 8 months ago Bleach fans even went as far to burn their merchandise. It was very ignorant for several reasons, 1 they done have your money, 2 the story is over and throwing a tantrum like a toddler won’t fix it and 3 it’s the authors story. You can say “OOC” all you want, but the creator made these people, what is “in character” for them will always be their say not yours.

    So rather than “OOC” it’s more like they aren’t acting as you wanted these characters too, not them actually being “out of character”. Granted KH isn’t those fandoms, at least not yet, not sure if it ever will be given how many fans it’s lost due to it’s console spread. The remixes aren’t sparking back much life to forums so I can’t tell.

    Anyway, you’re likely wondering where I’m going with this. If you’re a reader of mine previously, you know I’m building a point. That point being, “shipping is strong”. While KH isn’t other fandoms it does have a constant shipping war, or debates rather, that have lasted and changed for 15yrs now.

    [​IMG]
    Originally posted by captestheimxv

    The KH shipping fandom in particular has two larger camps. You have those that say there is no undertones and it’s all purely friendship and you have those who have some ship they ride with undying, if not scary, fervor.

    It’s these two sides that I’ve always somewhat never understood. I’m an analytical man, to me both sides are behaving in extremes rather than logic. You see, each game in the series has had a little of everything.

    “What!? You’re just a hater!”
    No, no, be calm child. I have a lot of issues with KH but shipping isn’t one of them. What I mean is each game is inconsistent. The people on the “platonic side” are right in that the series main focus is friendship. It always has been, this needs to be accepted.

    On the flipside, the “shipper side” is also right. Undertones do exist. We see this all the time. For this post I will focus on the “oldest ship”, SoKai. (hear that @anheiressofasoldier I’m talking SoKai, enjoy~)

    It’s by far the oldest ship in the series thanks to Kingdom Hearts 1. It began there. And no, I don’t say this because Sora stabbed himself and became a heartless for Kairi. I say this for the subtle reasons. Scenes such as Sora & Kairi’s moment in the cave, or how Kairi’s heart chose Sora to hide in specifically, or the cave drawing of the paopu fruit, or how Riku openly teases Sora on screen.

    Riku also uses this plot point again in the foot race. Saying the “winner gets to share a paopu with Kairi”. If you win, yes you can win that race, Riku scoffs it off as Sora being too serious.

    “Well tha-”
    Ah ah ah! Sssshhh I’m not done. Let me continue. These things are there, they are in-game, they exist, no amount of headcanon will change this. However no amount of headcanon will make these more than this, undertones.

    You see, the ship that started all of this isn’t really that much of a ship. Undertones for something more are hinted but here’s the thing- They’re all on Sora’s end. This is something that exists in several games, Chain of Memories and Days also emphasize this.

    It’s always Sora’s feelings of Kairi that we are told about. It’s never her own. This is due to the bad writing at times since Kairi herself is woefully underused. Her “clones” have literally had more relevance going beyond KH1.

    “But what about Sora x Riku!?”
    Yes, what about it? To be honest I think my friend Osprey described this phenomenon best. I quote;

    That is a very compelling point, perhaps very true tbh. Anyone knows friendships are easier to right. You can make two character out of thin air, throw them in a setting and say they’re friends. So long as you portray them actually behaving like friends, it’s believable.
    That’s the difference between them. Romance has to be built, friendship doesn’t.

    [​IMG]
    Originally posted by keybladeheroes

    You could make the case of platonic friendship being the closest of course, although it depends entirely on the people. Romantic lovers can be the closest due to their close nature, but platonic can be just as close for it’s pure nature.

    If you wanted to treat KH like it’s written well then you could view it from Riku’s view. Just imagine half the shit Riku pulled, yet Sora still cared. For someone who was through the emotional ringer, that would be quite compelling for Riku’s loyalty.

    You could even make it a case on Sora’s personality. If it came to the heart stab scene he truly would do that for anyone, shippers need to accept that fact. However, it’s also true the feelings of Sora are told to us to everyone BUT himself. For examples;

    Sora couldn’t wake up because his memories of Kairi became Xion, that means he values Kairi so much that she’s the specific reason his heart won’t wake. Not because he’s missing memories of Riku or others, but Kairi.
    (this scene here, click me)

    In CoM, Namine specifically points out she can’t replace Kairi. Trying to do so only amplifies his feelings for her and Namine points out to him that even with his memories gone, his value of her is so strong it overrode her magic. This not only gave him a glimpse of Kairi but changed her charm back to normal.
    (around 2mins in this scene here, click me)

    • In KH2, before SoKu set sail, Donald & Goofy tease Sora about Kairi in Port Royal and he even daydreams of her in Halloween Town. (this scene, click me)

    “You’re just trying to prove SoKai, what’s your point?”
    My point is this implies an interesting facet about Sora. Ignoring the ignorance the games have given him lately, it shows that normally Sora is open with everyone, he values everyone, even Roxas who he’s never properly met.

    In contrast, it also foreshadows that he’s not as open with Kairi because the feeling isn’t friendship. It’s more special to him than the rest and he isn’t as open because, like any man, he doesn’t fucking know how to be.

    Women are mysterious creatures, we men don’t know how to approach them. Some claim too, some try too, but more often than not we fly blind.

    [​IMG]
    Originally posted by 3ladyinred3

    It’s in defining Sora and Kairi’s ties that we see how the others work. Yes Sora stabbed himself for Kairi, but Sora would literally do this for anyone. He is just that nice and he values his friends lives.

    Yes Sora cried for Riku, but you have to remember that Sora thought Riku was dead or bad off. We as the players seen Riku but Sora wasn’t ever sure of Riku’s fate.

    Riku in turn pulled some bad shit in KH1. His guilt has carried over up to KHDDD. Despite these mistakes, Sora never held it against Riku and even cried knowing he was okay. To Riku, who’s been through an emotional ringer, this would be quite compelling.
    In Riku’s eyes, Sora deserves the best of loyalty. Which we see in KHDDD. Riku values Sora to the point that KHDDD was almost as SoRiku as KH1 was SoKai.

    Then this bleeds into Sora and Kairi’s “clones”. Roxas, Namine and Xion all have their own minds but they also aren’t natural beings. They sprang from Sora & Kairi and aspects of them bleed into them.

    • Xion was the “Kairi Sora remembered” and to that extent Roxas kinda treated her as “his kairi”. Xion herself displayed Sora’s trait of self sacrifice and loyalty.

    • Namine was “Kairi’s Shadow” and due to Kairi’s bond with Sora had actual powers over Sora’s memory. Namine in a sense, is the embodiment of Kairi’s hold over Sora.

    • Roxas also had unique bonds to Xion and Namine, these weren’t so much bonds of romantic nature but them feeling the effects of Sora’s bonds to Kairi.

    [​IMG]
    In Summary
    The point I’m making is that when I analyze the story and the arguments of various ships in the series, I don’t see it. Instead, what I see is mishandled relationships. Yes KH2 and KHDDD had borderline SoraxRiku material, however other games emphasize Kairi’s importance to Sora.

    The series constantly goes back and forth and this lack of consistency tells me that there are no romantic points in this story. If I had to place any value, it’d be that Sora himself has a crush on Kairi.

    Her importance to him is highlighted regularly and his behavior around her isn’t as open as he is with Riku, Donald and Goofy. If you watch, Sora treats Donald and Goofy the same way he does Riku. The difference is Donald and Goofy are just as big a dork as Sora is, so when Sora hugs them or acts silly so do they.

    I can’t claim there’s a ship or couple in the series because there isn’t any. There is no actual romance, just undertones. And even then, while I think Sora holds Kairi in special regard I don’t know what Kairi thinks.

    We hardly see Kairi in this series and we don’t get a real solid glimpse of her view. Couples are mutual, if I only see things on Sora’s end then I can’t say there is one.

    Even then, all the importance of Kairi to Sora isn’t even told to us BY Sora himself. It’s told to us by others, such as Riku in Days or Namine in Chain of Memories.

    Everything truly is connected back to Sora, for better or worse. The nobodies behave the way they do because of Sora, some like Xion even have their “real” faces determined by his feelings for other people. (in this case, Kairi)

    I think people see what they want to see more than what is actually present. Whether you ignore undertones as a “platonic shipper” or whether you ignore things outside traditional ships because they’re your OTP. I’m also highly doubtful you’ll see any confirmation on such things, at least not till a final game, if ever, happens.

    P.S Yes I didn’t bring up Kairi’s moments in KH2. She did show favoritism towards Sora but at the same time she seemed a bit too obsessed in that regard to me. It’s hard for me to take Kairi’s KH2 personality seriously since the Kairi we’re introduced to in KH1, albeit brief, showed a more natural and equal concern for both her friends.

    Then again Kh2′s script was…questionable in several areas so meh. Personally I’d need to see Kairi truly developed more as a character to see SoKai as anything more than her simply being Sora’s crush.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  2. Kitty

    Kitty I Survived The BG Massacre Staff Member Administrator

    I'm fond of shipping, though not in the KH fandom, as I personally don't find any of the ships captivating enough to give a damn about. If you ask me, romance is not a priority in this franchise- I think the emphasis is much more on friendship. As far as Sora/Kairi, personally, I don't find the ship very believable despite the examples you've shown in your post. I think a lot of the blame goes to Kairi's neglected characterization. I don't care about Kairi, therefore, I don't care about her as a love interest, and that role seems to be all she has going for herself.

    Agreed. This might change as the series progresses and wraps up, though.
     
  3. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    I don't mind shipping so long as it stays...calm. It does annoy me when the love for something is based entirely on it or when people behave like my examples. A lot of respect for shipping was lost in me with the RWBY fandom but that's another ordeal. lol

    The emphasis is definitely on friendship. As I'm replaying 1.5+2.5 I'm noticing that the games portray a more crush like view of the situation. There's no ship and whether it's some mutual thing we don't know because of just how poorly Kairi has been used. That is the sad thing about it maybe, all she has for a character right now is being a crush.

    I only say this because the games are telling me this information repeatedly though. When it comes to the other ships people make, I see nothing, I find it hard to understand how they even see it.

    It may change. I'd actually kinda laugh if Nomura followed through on his SoKai stuff. Although I'd also weep since that means Kairi wasn't developed into her own person but into that role. She should be her own person before anything else.
     
  4. Kitty

    Kitty I Survived The BG Massacre Staff Member Administrator

    I think the Harry Potter fandom is the absolute worst (or at least it was back in the day. I've lost touch with the fandom over the years).

    I agree people can act like idiots over their OTPs. I myself sometimes have strong opinions. But a lot of times, I just enjoy sitting back and watching people fight over their ships. I'm easily amused.

    I think the series will follow through with Sora and Kairi. Otherwise, there's no reason for her to even be a character in the games.
     
  5. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    I had no idea even the HP fandom had that problem. o-0
    The worst examples of OTP idiocy, I've seen, would be Bleach fans burning merch, the fall of the Naruto fandom or the RWBY fandom shaming RWBY and it's deceased creator because some character died.

    When it comes to KH, the most idiocy I've seen in their shipping wars is the denial. Something that came up when I discussed this with you and someone else. I don't think it's a romantic series in nature but at the same time I think it's foolish to ignore something like the game saying this person is this level of special to this person.

    Tbh it's kinda sad how true that statement is. She could be an interesting character on her own if someone with sense, or at least an editor willing to tell Nomura "no", was there. So many things could've been done, like her powers from having a heart purely of light. That'd be a damn interesting avenue to explore.
    The most we've seen of this power is when she turns Sora's heartless back into a human form. That's breaking some physics right there.
     
  6. yohance090

    yohance090 New Member

    I am interested in shipping.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  7. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    How so? :3
     

Share This Page