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Master of Masters Observations

Discussion in 'General Kingdom Hearts' started by Derek, Feb 2, 2017.

  1. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    I had enough free time to play 0.2 and watch BC over a few weeks of time so why not apply some observation while I have the time too.

    ---------------
    So after squeezing in time for 0.2 and Back Cover time to ramble!

    To start off, I identified with the MoM a bit. I’m nowhere near that intelligent but I am mischievous. I do things and I especially say things just to see the reaction sometimes or I’ll do some random act to amuse myself such as buying a new mother (like my cousins or aunt) a Tickle Me Elmo doll because I know, I KNOW, their child will play it constantly and torment their mother. That’s how I am, that’s how a troll is and that’s what MoM is.

    Because I’m like him I have no trust in him. We’re duel sided. We can troll and be mischievous but it’s because we’re always acting that we can be acting one way but be planning things another.

    Like I can muse to myself while working or doing homework and also be thinking up those long AU idea posts I make. Now take a dummy like me and spike it to the eleven with the MoM who is clearly very brilliant. He’s made or at least obtained the worlds first keyblade, he created dream eater spirits in the physical world to act as guides, and he guided, trained and likely set up 6 young people even when he wasn’t around to interfere directly.

    Which brings me to my next or biggest notice, the MoM treats each of his apprentices differently. Either in big ways or subtle ways.

    [​IMG]

    For Ava the MoM treats her more seriously but compassionately. He acts mentor like or fatherly and even headpats like I do when I see something I find cute. In group settings he’s playful as always but usually he indulges her or talks to her personally with minimal joking around.

    [​IMG]


    For Aced & Ira the MoM behaves like I would treat most people. Both are very serious and in accordance to this the MoM trolls them endlessly. He makes light of their serious natures either for his own amusement, in hopes they’ll lighten up or both.

    It also the two that he gave the most controversial roles. He knew one wanted to be leader so made him second fiddle and he knew the other wasn’t a leader so much as he was a thinker but made him leader. The way he explained it to Aced is one way to look at it but when I look at this I see him setting up two people who would easily conflict and spiral into battle.

    [​IMG]

    For Gula the MoM treated him in a friendly manner. Serious like Ava but he doesn’t troll him like Aced or Ira. He treats Gula in a more equal level in the sense he knows Gula is logical so talks to him logical even if he acts silly while doing so.

    His decision to give Gula the page was also very dual depending on how you view it. On the one side giving a logical, detached thinker, the job of observation is sound, on the other hand it’s also bad since Gula will judge his findings based on that logic and thus is likely to pick the first likely candidate. Which he not only does but as we see Aced could or couldn’t be the traitor.

    [​IMG]

    For Invi the MoM was again, more serious, but he trolls her a bit like Ira or Aced. Or rather he teases her. It’s not too much and he gives her serious conversation in turn. If anything he was encouraging to her while giving her a role that could cause trouble quicker than any other. He treats her like Ava but since she’s older he gives her more serious attention in dialogue.

    [​IMG]

    or Luxu I find the relationship the most peculiar. The MoM talks to Luxu in the most personal manner. He acts silly but he doesn’t really tease or troll Luxu, in fact he indulges his student and tells him what’s in his box even if to ensure Luxu wont open it. His act of giving Luxu the box, telling him what’s inside, and giving him his keyblade shows he places more trust in Luxu than the rest. He believes and knows Luxu will do his task without fail so that tells me that Luxu is his first apprentice or just his most trusted one. Perhaps this is reflected in them wearing the same coat.

    [​IMG]

    As for the MoM himself I still find him the most suspicious and likely traitor among them. However the MoM seems more detached than outright evil. His most “evil” moment was his “ohhhhh you know” or however he worded it when talking about his box and opening it.

    The MoM is a likely traitor to me but I can’t tell if he’s this way because he’s evil or because there’s a grander issue that is morally grey which he intends to confront. That wouldn’t make his actions less evil in nature but the evil of the MoM is hard to gauge since he just flat out doesn’t care. (then again the notion of “apathy is the greatest evil” is also true)

    Oddly enough I think the MoM’s most curious action was telling Ava to create the Dandelions. He made sure to keep light alive even though it appears he ensured darkness would prevail as well.

    He also chose Ava to do this who seems the youngest and most innocent, but also most loyal, of the five students who stayed behind. Perhaps it’s because he thinks Ava is the most “pure” of his students (after the loyalty of Luxu anyway) but either way I found it odd to pick the most “normal” one for this task.

    One final mystery I wondered is how early in his life he began to see the future. We know WHY he can see the future, we know it’s a paradox he creates, but it begs the question of how early his younger self began seeing visions of the future to know what to do. How did it motivate him? How was he like before he knew the world would end and thus developed a detached frame of mind.

    My tumblr ver: http://derekscorner.tumblr.com/post/156623598557/master-of-masters-observation

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    Overall I find this MoM person more amoral than outright good or evil for now.
     
  2. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    The Master of Masters is... Odd, to say the least. It is rather difficult to get a good lock on him. The biggest issue comes from him seeing into the future. In stories where the plot kicks off from some prediction of the future and trying to prevent said future, it is usually the attempt to prevent the future that causes the future to happen. Oedipus was predicted to kill his father and sleep with his mother. My memory is fuzzy on this, but in an attempt to prevent this future from happening he was to be killed. That didn't work out and he ended up being raised by adoptive parents and ultimately ended up killing his birth father and sleeping with his birth mother. Personally I have always believed that, had this prophecy not been fought against, it wouldn't have come true.

    Anyways, my point is that with the MoM, there isn't much information given about his feelings towards seeing the future. Either he saw the future and gave up, believing that it could not be changed, or he did try to change it and this resulted in different, worse, outcomes or the future could not be changed. Either way, this does draw parallels to Xehanort, who is a staunch believer in destiny and that everything is preordained. Which does bring to question as to how Sora will manage to stop him. A bit more on that later.

    It seems like the MoM created the Book of Prophecies for the 5 apprentices in order to keep the future going down the path he saw. Which is also why he gave them secret roles that the others did not know about. Interestingly the apprentices managed to fulfill their roles, but they did it in such a way that tore them apart. Aced did spur the group into action, but that action was ultimately them fighting each other. Anyways, my claim of the MoM setting events to go the way he saw is only further accomplished through him not explaining things properly to the 5 apprentices. After all, why bother telling Gula there will be a traitor and give him an incredibly vague passage detailing who the traitor is instead of simply telling Gula who the traitor is? It is clear that the MoM knows who the traitor is.

    Thinking on it now, I can't help but feel that a decent chunk (Or at the very least the last bit) of the Book of Prophecies is all about events after the Keyblade War. The final page, the one that basically was the end of the world passage, could apply to the Keyblade War or it could apply to Sora and Xehanort's battle in KH3. "On that land shall darkness prevail and light expire" or whatever the passage was. Xehanort could be misunderstanding it and believe it to apply to his goals, or it could be the end result of his and Sora's fight. Assuming the latter is the case, then either Xehanort wins or the MoM left out some details to further spur Xehanort into his role in destiny. Or Sora somehow destroys Xehanort's keyblade (Or the eye in the keyblade) and that passage was the last bit of the future the MoM was able to see.

    Additionally, the passage about the traitor is more likely to point to Xehanort than it is anybody during the time of Back Cover. I do know that for the English version there was a bit missing in translation. In the English version the passage says something like "The traitor has the sigil" or something like that whereas the Japanese version says Recursant's sigil. That one word makes it much more likely that Xehanort is the traitor (Which makes sense that he betrays Eraqus and essentially everything he has been taught for the darkness). Or it could mean (Somehow, but incredibly unlikely) that Sora is somehow the traitor since, after all, he had the Recursant's sigil throughout all of DDD. Which then ties into a theory I once read that Lea (Or Axel, whatever you wanna call him) didn't actually stop Xehanort's heart from going into Sora, evidenced by Xehanort's grin when Lea stepped in to save Sora. I do have to say that I doubt this would be the case.

    If the traitor is someone around the events of Back Cover, then the part of the Recursant's sigil would hint towards it being Luxu since he's the only one with an X in his name. In a way I suppose he could be the traitor, though not deliberately. With Back Cover I feel that they left too much out (The least they could've done was show the Keyblade War). There is one scene I know of that should have been in Back Cover that wasn't, but it is in the actual cellphone/internet game. Ava finds Luxu and questions him as to where he's been and whatnot. He explains his role is to watch events unfold. The way he talks to Ava though is weird and makes him seem like the traitor. Anyways, in the Book of Prophecies there is a passage saying something like the start of the Keyblade War will be signaled with the clash of keyblades as a bell rings for noon (Or something along those lines). Ava attacks Luxu and the clock strikes noon as it happens, signaling the beginning of the Keyblade War. So in that sense, Luxu could be viewed as the traitor.

    Focusing back on the MoM, I also feel that it is also possible he will pull a Xehanort and reveal himself as the ultimate villain and basically orchestrated all the events leading up to KH3. So ultimately I think that he's either someone who resigned themselves to fate after seeing the future or he has some big plan he's been setting up for the longest time. I do find it suspicious that he was afraid he would vanish one day and was completely unsure if he would or wouldn't, even though him seeing the future should have let him know he would disappear one day.

    It makes sense that he started to see the future after creating his keyblade, or inserting his eye in it if he didn't make it. I think the general belief right now is that he made that and other keyblades. I am curious as to why that keyblade appears with a flash of darkness instead of a flash of light. Even though Mickey's Kingdom Key is from the dark realm and appears with a flash of light. So strange. Also I wonder if the other keyblades with eyes in them (Vanitas' Void Gear, Riku's Way to Dawn, Riku's Soul Eater even though it isn't a keyblade, two of Terra's keyblades) are connected to the MoM like Xehanort's keyblade is, or if those eyes don't actually do anything.
     
    Keyblade Master Roxas likes this.
  3. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    You raise good points but it only makes you wonder more since the MoM is just that strange. For whatever reason he has the unique mindset of "after". Most people would react like his students did but he only cares about "after" the event.

    I dont think the future is a set as Xehanort wants it to be. So far each form of time manipulation we've seen was self consistent but only because it was a time loop. Timeless River? Sora kept it consistent by stopping Pete. Xehanort in DDD? He kept it consistent himself because it was his time travel itself that set him on the path that LEAD to time travel. MoM? Self consistent because he kept a book from Luxu to ensure he wouldn't create any paradoxes or anomalies.

    That's the key factor, the MoM made sure Luxu COULDN'T create any anomalies. So I dont think destiny is a set end, just an end of a decision you make. So far the characters themselves have made it consistent. That being said however, this could also mean the end of light is also self consistent because someone makes sure it will be. So if not destiny there could very well be a person that is a cause.

    My eyes may have failed me but I think the zipper on the MoM and Luxu's coats were an X symbol but I'd lean more with you in thinking Xehanort is the traitor. The book they use, according to Chi, is the source of the fake worlds, medals and even false heartless unions battle. Meaning it has events of Soras world recorded IN IT.
    Plus the MoM ripped the missing page from the middle of the book, not the ending of it. That would imply the parts revolving around the traitor aren't even the end and since we know Soras world is recorded in it it makes your theory even more likely.

    The only real enigma is the Master himself. Does he not care because he thinks it's set? Or at the very least the future he caused is the "least horrible" one he saw? Stuff like that. I wouldn't say he's good but he also doesn't seem outright evil, just amoral or apathetic which is arguably worse than any evil.

    I think for now it's generally thought he created them although I wish the movie had showed us how he made the keyblade. I dont like the midoclorian lore the keyblades have gotten since BBS but if they're gonna delve they could've at least showed us how it was made.
    It's been a long while but last I recall it was in a DDD thing or BBS but light and dark keyblades aren't really different, they just call a different realm home. Keyblades that are different and have unique powers, as we know so far, would be like the Xblade or the Heart keyblade made from the princesses.

    That and I dont think the logic of keychains or how a keyblade looks really matters in it's orientation. Kinda like how light world inhabitants such as Riku can use darkness even though he's of a light alliance.
    Then there's keychains themselves, so far they just seem to be cosmetic and the Soul Eater has been around since before KH was sure to even get a series so for now I'd not worry about any of that. If it's important Nomura will backtrack and retroactively change it like the whole Ansem thing.
     
  4. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    I assume that's a side effect of being able to see into the future. After all, his future sight is shown off more as "This will happen" and not "This might happen."

    It might not be. Things have gone in Xehanort's favor because he's a good enough schemer that he's able to force things to go the way he wants them to. In fact, based on one of the older trailers of KH3 it is quite possible that is the case. You know, the trailer where a younger Xehanort and Eraqus are playing some kind of chess and Xehanort talks about the prophecy and Eraqus essentially says that the light will have some trick to utterly screw with that prophecy.

    Like I said, it is either that or the future is totally set in stone and the MoM either left out what happened after this final prophecy or something happened to prevent him from seeing beyond that final prophecy.

    Here's the question though. If someone is there to make sure the prophecy is consistent, did they do it because they knew of the prophecy? Or did they do it without knowing the prophecy and did it because destiny said so? Until KH3 comes out (Or the often joked about KH 2.9), we can't really tell.

    Yes, the MoM's coat has a different zipper than normal. Maybe Luxu's coat does as well, but I can't get a close enough look at it. Can't quite tell if the zipper has an X or it is some other symbol. It almost looks like the Unversed symbol. Anyways, while I do feel that the end of the book is focused more towards the events of KH3, I do find it odd that none of the MoM's pupils realized this. Something like "Oh hey, there's this prophecy that the darkness will prevail against the light, but this won't occur until we are remembered only as fairy tales."

    I wouldn't say he's apathetic. Like you pointed out with his fixation on "after," he did say that it was futile to try and stop the darkness from consuming the light and that it was more important to focus on what happens after.

    I don't know how accurate this is since there isn't any form of citation, but here's a quote from the character page on TVTropes on the matter: Spontaneous Weapon Creation/Ultimate Blacksmith: Word of God for Back Cover is that he created his own Keyblades, using his knowledge of the X-Blade to draw them out from hearts, rather than forging or tempering them. Presumably this makes him the ultimate source of all Keyblades in the series thus far, with the exception of the X-Blade itself.

    True, but you would thing, logically, that a keyblade from the realm of darkness would appear in a shroud of darkness just like a keyblade from the realm of light appearing in a flash of light. Also on the subject of keyblades appearing, I found it odd that Terra is literally the only keyblade wielder who has their keyblade appear in a way similar to the data keyblade appears for Roxas in his prologue in KH2. Even Ven, who's more of a trainee than Terra is, had his keyblade appear in his hands normally.

    I assume this part was directed at the last part of my reply. If that's the case, well then let me try again. I wasn't referring to the keychains when I brought up those keyblades. Like Xehanort's keyblade, Void Gear and other keyblades have the Gazing Eye. As the MoM said, the Gazing Eye is what lets him see into the future. So that makes me wonder if every keyblade that has an eye has it cosmetically or if those keyblades also let the MoM see into the future like Xehanort's keyblade does.
     
  5. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

     
  6. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    I meant from an in-game perspective. After all, if everybody took a moment to sit down and talk in BBS the outcome of the game could've been completely different.

    Why not both. Xehanort is destined to be that way and he actively works to make it happen. I suppose at this point it becomes nuance as to whether that is truly destiny or not though.

    Those are good points. I must say though that the Pete example feels more like a bad example of altering history, at least from an ontological standpoint. Assuming Pete had succeeded, then the Cornerstone of Light would have been gone for a long time and darkness may or may not have taken hold prior to the events of the games. With Pete failing, there never should have been darkness at Disney Castle to begin with.. I know KH isn't the only story to do time travel shenanigans like that, but it doesn't make sense unless you stop viewing time as a linear path. Which then leads to paradoxes and whatnot.

    True. I can't help but feel though that with how the MoM seems to see into the future that there is some detail about this destiny that is being left out.

    To answer your first and final questions, I feel that the X-blade and (At least) the Kingdom Key and Kingdom Key D are special keyblades. The X-blade exists because Kingdom Hearts exists. The Kingdom Key exists because the keyblade chose Sora instead of somebody else choosing Sora to wield a keyblade. Admittedly that part is harder to prove since the Kingdom Key was supposed to go to Riku instead. Perhaps he would've had a different looking keyblade, but since he had chosen darkness the keyblade then chose Sora and as such appeared in a more "true form" of a keyblade? I dunno. Anyways, assuming I am even somewhat correct, then the Kingdom Key D exists because it is the dark realm's version of the Kingdom Key and therefore is automatically special. I can't really answer your second or third questions without thinking over it and coming up with pure speculation.

    Fair enough. If anything is brought up about it it will all be a retcon at this point anyways.
     
  7. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    That's what really irks me in ways since the cause of everyone's fate was literal melodrama. Anyone in the BBS cast, in any combination, sitting down to talk would've severely if not negated the story events.

    I forget what it's called but there's a trope or theory of time travel that goes alongside with the KH2-Pete thing. That's the fault of the confusion I think, many can't see time as anything but linear.
    It would help though if KH stayed with one version of time travel though. Pete, Novikov, there's at least two or three we could name if we were being technical.

    There's definitely some detail being left out since Nomura likes to "surprise" but at this point it could be defying "destiny" or ensuring it I think.

    Well Riku's Way to Dawn looks the way it does since the Soul Eater was it's base so whether the Kingdom Key looks as it does due to Sora or Riku would be a question only Nomura could give answers to I think.
    Your likely right on the Xblade but you can see my issue with the rest I think.

    I think the keyblade was one of those story aspects best not delved too deeply into. In stories some things are defined, others are left to imagination and then other things can be explained later. You have to know which is which when writing.
     
    Desert Warrior likes this.
  8. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    The Master of Masters is obviously the traitor!

    Why else disclose there is a traitor but not tell anyone who it is. Forsees everything and sets his students up for failure.

    EDIT: If not the MoM, it'll be Gula because his actions are sketchy. Alliances with Aced, letting slip that Invi convinced him to dissolve the alliance, him idiolly watching Invi and Aced fight then call Ava. I wouldn't put it behind the MoM to give the mission of finding the traitor to the traitor.
     
  9. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    It's also possible there is no traitor thus the MoM saying that was just a red herring to make them fall apart. I like that Gula idea, it'd be a neat little story twist that was actually a twist for once. :D
     
  10. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    That would essentially make him the traitor to lie about a traitor just to get them to turn against each other.
     
  11. Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    Semantic traitor, yes. There is no traitor so he lies about a traitor thus creating a traitor which begs the question of who's the true traitor. lmao
     

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