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The Problem With Kingdom Hearts by The Cosmonaut

Discussion in 'General Kingdom Hearts' started by Derek, Feb 7, 2017.

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  1. Feb 7, 2017 #1
    Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member



    Okay, okay, I know, but trust me, watch it, it's hilarious, it's good.
     
  2. Feb 8, 2017 #2
    Become

    Become The Pink Opaque Staff Member Moderator Content Writer

    Lacking the detailed knowledge of the spins offs that others have, I can't really make comment on that aspect of the story. But I can agree that things got really convoluted starting in KH2. That game DID kinda throw a lot at us in terms of plots and backstories. But at the time, I don't think it was all that bad, because it's kinda like, how many other avenues were there for them? I'd say they definitely satisfied certain things, like tying into Sora's time as a Heartless in KH1, and whatnot.

    Also... was that Justin Long doing that video? Am I the only one that thought that guy sounded (maybe just a bit) like Justin Long?
     
  3. Feb 9, 2017 #3
    Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    He does touch upon one thing I've thought every now and then. That the Disney worlds felt more connected to the overall narrative in the first KH and that they don't really feel that way in the other ones. From KH2 onward (Possibly even CoM), the worlds were just there for something to do. They were so interchangeable and could have been literally any other world.

    I do disagree with his suggestions of dropping the story (It just needs to finish at this point) and the inclusion of a Star Wars level (Just... No).
     
  4. Feb 10, 2017 #4
    Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    Ehhhh well the detailed lore stuff is beginning to contradict so dont worry about anything journal-Nomura related but you may have an issue or two when it comes to basic story stuff in narrative. Unless you just don't care, tbh I wouldn't blame you if you didn't care. When he said each title made what KH2 started worse and worse he wasn't kidding. I wasted years of life following it for a time and I honestly think it did more damage than it helped.

    When it was just KH2 it wasn't that bad, it was the after that was the problem. Like he said Kh2 was a "beginning of the end" kinda thing.

    KH1 just had that feel to it didn't it? Whether someone says it was good or otherwise almost everyone admits KH1 "felt different". It wasn't flawless but it did a lot right later titles didn't. CoM definitely started it but since it was originally a GBA game and had such a well written main story it's a bit more overlooked. lol

    I think the story is a big part of the problem but after this long it might be better to finish it in 3 before doing anything new. Granted I doubt it'll even end in 3, I'd expect Nomura to ride this train as long as he can just like Kubo did Bleach.

    What I would like to see though is a parallel series that starts fresh. Fans that think the current story is flawless can have it, I'd easily give a storyline, with no ties to the current one ever, a go real quick. I had on idea of doing like the Godzilla movie series does, use the first entry as the "first part" then just making a new sequel and series from it.
    Like right now KH1>Current series
    .........................KH1>Parallel series

    People try to tell me it'd be too confusing but then I point to the current story and then ask them "what's more complicated? Saying this new game only ties to Kh1 and they dont have to worry about anything else? Or trying to describe to them why Xion is a clone, her keyblade is fake, why Roxas and Ven are different people, why there is more than one Xehanort, why Kairi vanished after KH1, why neither Namine nor Sora's "body" between Kh1 and 2 were never explained, etc".
     
  5. Feb 13, 2017 #5
    Become

    Become The Pink Opaque Staff Member Moderator Content Writer

    What, pray tell, is your opposition to the inclusion of a Star Wars level?
     
  6. Feb 17, 2017 #6
    Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    I feel that from a story standpoint, KH1 is the best. From a gameplay standpoint though, KH2 fixed a lot. In fact I would probably argue that KH2 has the best gameplay of the entire series. Which is now just one more bar KH3 has to surpass.

    It has already been established KH3 isn't the end of the series. It is the end of the "Seeker of Darkness" story, which means it is the end of Xehanort being our main antagonist. With that information, we are almost assured a KH4 in 10-20 years.

    I do like that idea. I don't think it will really happen though, if only due to how blatant the Sora=Jesus metaphor has developed. At this point one of the main parts of KH is that Sora is the savior of the world. He's connected to every important character in some way, he's a unique keyblade wielder since he's probably the only one who got a keyblade without going through a rite of succession or whatever, etc.

    While these are confusing things, 2 things:

    1. Xion's keyblade wasn't fake. The Kingdom Key was literally in 2 places at once. Hell, it was probably in 3 places at once during certain points of the story, assuming Xion used the keyblade during the events of CoM. After all, it isn't like Roxas was using a fake keyblade at the time and we know about 1/3 or so of Days takes place before Sora falls asleep at the end of his half of CoM.

    2. What do you mean by Kairi vanished after KH1?

    It doesn't really fit in with the rest of the series. Reflecting back to KH1, all the Disney worlds were from older animated Disney movies. Nothing newer than... Late 90's, early 2000's. We've already had a case of this happening. The Pirate of the Caribbean world, while certainly enjoyable, did not fit well with the rest of the worlds in the game. I feel like a Star Wars world would be like that, only more. I have similar feelings towards a Marvel related world. Although Big Hero 6 originated from a Marvel owned series, so... I guess we'll have to see how that world goes.
     
    Kitty likes this.
  7. Feb 17, 2017 #7
    Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    That's a view I see a lot and agree with. KH2 had horrible writing but gameplay-wise it's only real crime was being too easy. The Final Mix helped that though.

    Oh I know. It makes me sad but I know. We're forever stuck with Sora and his new messiah complex Nomura has given him.

    Honestly that would've, AND SHOULD'VE, been the route Nomura took but it wasn't. Riku in Days calls Xion's keyblade a "sham" and Nomura reaffirmed it's a fake:

    Nomura: Riku only realizes it when Roxas takes off his hood and he can see his face, and he responds to his call. Until then he only half believed. When he first met Xion, he didn’t think that she was Sora or Kairi’s Nobody, and it was the same with Roxas. When he first saw Roxas, he had no proof of who he was. So that’s why he lost to Roxas, he was surprised at him using a real keyblade rather than an imitation like Xion’s, and he called out to him. Part of Riku didn’t really want to believe that his best friend really had a Nobody.

    Source-http://www.khinsider.com/news/358-2-Days-Scenario-Interview-894

    It's probably the only line he ever stated it from what I remember of my quote days but it is indeed confirmed by an in-game character and creator that it's fake.

    I was referring to her disappearance from the landscape. She didn't do much in KH1 but she somehow garnered a fanbase and after Kh1 she just vanished into the backdrop. Vanished from the stage as it were.
     
  8. Feb 20, 2017 #8
    Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    Honestly I don't really think KH2 even had that bad of writing. It wasn't until KH2 Final Mix and all these spin-off titles started to expand the universe and focus on Xehanort being the ultimate antagonist. While KH2 did bring up some extra questions, it seemed to resolve things fairly well. Sora, Riku, and Kairi were all reunited and back home on Destiny Islands and then the game ends with a "The adventure continues" ending similar to KH1 ending with that type of ending. Only that there didn't have to be that "The adventure continues" if you felt the story concluded nicely. Of course, I'm saying that since I feel that KH1 didn't seem to have a proper conclusion the same way KH2 did, pre-Final Mix and spin off titles.

    Strange. I swear I once saw a quote from Nomura saying what I said. I suppose there's always the option of him changing his mind later (Similar to how, originally, the reason why Roxas could dual wield was connected to Xehanort's missing memories).

    Well while she was totally a plot point and simply a goal for Sora in KH1, I thought she was an okay character. But yeah, Sora's focus on Riku and not Kairi really annoyed the hell out of me in KH2.
     
  9. Feb 20, 2017 #9
    Derek

    Derek Well-Known Member

    Oh I definitely wont argue that. Like I was telling a younger fan/friend of mine the other day, back in2005, the only mysteries you had was "Who's Xehanort" and of course the extra ending (the armors).
    Even then you only had those questions if you read the Ansem Reports to know Xehanort had amnesia and if you unlocked the ending.

    KH1 didn't. They wanted to leave it open in case it warranted a sequel...although that doesn't really give them an excuse for having an ending that enraged or saddened many in 2002. lol

    Possibly. It's one reason I've quit paying them any mind. For instance that link I posted is 2008 or 9 I think. It's more of a pain to bother with it these days with change and contradiction.
    I do like developmental interviews though. That' fun for any game title. :D

    Either way I'd stick to what you said personally. Even if Nomura thinks otherwise, if he even still does, it's a better headcanon imo.

    I'm no kairi fan or anything myself but I do find it annoying they can't even find a supporting role for her. I think it mostly bothers me since their "fix" for this was to give her a keyblade, explain her having it as an "accident" and rolling with it. Then there was the Kh2 thing you mentioned.

    A minor gripe but one I have.
     
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