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Is Honesty the Best Policy?

Discussion in 'Mature Discussion' started by Kitty, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. Kitty

    Kitty I Survived The BG Massacre Staff Member Administrator

    What the title says.

    In my opinion, this is not always the case. In general, I think it's better to tell the truth, but sometimes, I think the truth can be hurtful without any real benefit. If my nephew holds up a picture he drew and asks what I think, I'm not going to tell him it just looks like a mess of scribbles. And if someone is just starting out learning a new skill and doesn't have the hang of it, I think it's better to try and be encouraging rather than brutally honest about it.

    Then there are extreme situations like if you're an undercover cop and someone calls you on it- of course you're not going to admit to it unless you want to put your life in danger.

    But what is your opinion?
     
  2. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    Such a tricky subject. I honestly think the truth is always the best policy. I'm so naive! Whether the truth is bent or embellished is still the truth. Whether the person interrupts it as a lie or truth is opinionated.

    For example: I knew this kid who was 16 years old and i met his female friend that he knew since he was three. She told me when she was five that he gave her a stuff animal. So being the funny guy that I was, I told everyone that he gave stuff animals to five year girls. Was it the truth, yes! Was it the whole story, no!

    [The truth is always funnier than the lie]

    So the truth can be bent and weaved without lying or hurting feeling if that's the case.
     
  3. Reprise

    Reprise Semi-present

    What about Kitty's example of an undercover cop? Would you try to bend the truth or would it simply be best to deny it?

    This is a tricky subject because it's pretty much impossible to say "always tell the truth, no matter what" and impossible to say "lie about everything, no matter what". I think that if the truth would benefit someone, tell it. If it'll only hurt feelings, like telling a kid that they're a terrible artist, then don't tell it.

    But then it's not always that simple, so I think I'd have to agree with Angel to a point; don't go deluding people with things that are far from the truth. Basically, you can bend the truth, like telling your children that the tooth fairy exists, but don't distort it so that it just deludes them.

    I don't know if any of that made any sense.
     
  4. Kitty

    Kitty I Survived The BG Massacre Staff Member Administrator

    Is that bending the truth, or just an outright lie? Not that it matters so much to me personally, because I don't think it's wrong to let your kids believe in Santa or the Easter Bunny or whatever. I know some people think it sets a bad precedent for lying to your kids, but I don't remember feeling disappointment when I realized Santa and the others didn't exist, or anger at my parents over it. I don't even remember a specific moment of finding out; it was just something that I realized little by little as I got older, I guess.

    When you get into bending the truth, I think you can do it so much that it really does end up being just a lie, or close enough to it. And sometimes when you bend the truth, it can change the whole connotation of the story. Like Angel's example- a little boy giving a little girl he's grown up with a stuffed animal as a gift is sweet, a near adult passing out toys to random little girls might not seem as such.

    Then you get into asking yourself who benefits. If telling the truth could help someone else but hurt yourself (in an embarassing or friendship-ruining type way, not in a putting yourself in actual danger way), are you honest with the other person or not?
     
  5. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    Is it lying if you believe the lie is the truth?

    I really don't know though. It could be different in different situations. I'm sure; you could weasel your way through something like that.

    You could tell the truth without hurting any feelings but I personally don't like sugarcoating the truth when it comes to talents and skills.

    I, would personality tell you that your not good. Kids normally get over it. But, if you want to be encouraging go ahead. You can tell the truth and be encouraging.
     
  6. Reprise

    Reprise Semi-present

    What if the child is a brilliant artist for their age? Personally, I wouldn't want to crush their confidence by saying that the drawing looks like scribbling. Because really, telling a child they're bad at something can have serious effects on their motivation. I don't like sugarcoating, but if telling the absolute truth is going to do a lot more bad than good overall, then it's understandable not to tell it.

    The thing is, since so many people sugarcoat everything, a lot of people are used to being told that they're perfect and it shocks them when someone says it how it is, so it's hard to decide whether to sugarcoat things or not unless you actually want to hurt someone.

    The tooth fairy isn't a complete fabrication, technically; the child still has something to look forward when they lose a tooth, so it's really only bending the truth.

    If you believe a lie is the truth, then I'd just call that ignorance, like a child believing in Santa and talking to his friends about Christmas presents. He's not purposely saying something to trick his friends into believing in Santa, so I wouldn't say he's lying.

    The thing is, there are certain situations in which I'm sure we'd all lie and certain situations where we'd all tell the truth, so in my opinion, honesty is usually the best policy, but not always.
     
  7. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    What's brilliant about scribbles? If you think, they are brilliant then that is what you tell them.

    Maybe if you constantly throw it in their face over and over again but one time wouldn't really do anything. Kids will constantly do things regardless of what you say. Doesn't derail their confidence or anything. Ugh kids!

    Whether it does more bad than good. You wouldn't know. It depends on the child.

    I see it as by not saying something is worst than saying it at all. Eventually, the person will be discourage and the higher the pedestal, the greater the fall.

    I wouldn't call the tooth fairy any form of bending the truth. If you willingly tell someone, something that is not factual and you know it's not factual then it's a lie.

    What about con-men who believe in their own lies? Would that be ignorance? I'm sure if you tell yourself something long enough you'll believe it.
     
  8. Reprise

    Reprise Semi-present

    Let's say this child is three years old, yet they can already draw pretty coherently. By adult standards, their drawings look like scribblings, but for their age, they're making good progress. Would you tell them that their drawing is terrible, knowing that they are better than average for their age?

    Don't generalise and say that all children will constantly do things no matter what you say. A lot of children, at least the ones I know, are quite sensitive and would remember that you said they're terrible for a long time.

    I say you can use your common sense to figure out if telling the truth would do more bad than good. Let's say your friend is planning on asking their crush out to a prom. If that crush asked you who your friend is going to ask out, would you say "He is going to ask you out" and pretty much spoil however your friend was going to ask her out? I'd be able to figure out that my friend would be quite angry with me if I told his crush that they like them.

    You could also look at it from a different angle and say that if that child is good for their age, are you really doing anyone any good by discouraging them?

    I suppose you're right about the tooth fairy. Consider that a bad example. However, the point still stands; bending the truth is OK, so long as you don't delude anyone.

    Con-men who believe their own lies? They would no longer be con-men; they would simply be delusional.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  9. Angel

    Angel Lion Heart Staff Member Administrator

    >If you want! Different situations require different forms of the truth. Cold and senseless or sparingly gentle. You don't have to go about it by saying it's terrible. You can say just enough that its not hurting but expressing that the drawing is not good.

    >Well I don't think I said all but its true. Some things they'll take your word for, others they won't. I'm sure that you haven't been constantly obedient to your parents or authority figures. Figuratively speaking, how much is a long time? I doubt its for 'long'. I don't think grudges are common in children since grudges are for long periods of times unless it's like emotionally scarring but I'm talking about something insignificant. Besides just because a child remembers what you said doesn't necessarily make them bitter towards you.

    >Life is more complicated then being thought up in your head. A good judgement or common sense could seem terrible in hindsight.

    We could play the 'what if game all day' You could have told the crush and maybe your friend chickened out and she confronts him and he admits to it. Positively, giving him that date that wouldn't have happened without you telling her.

    The girl could say nothing to him at all about it if you told

    You could say nothing.

    If the friend finds out that you squealed. He could just as well be forgiving.

    >Well, morally if your doing something good is up to your judgement. I think its better to be disappointed by the truth and then encouraged while your young as opposed to being disappointed at an older age where all you knew was encouragement based off 'lies' or 'the lack of truth'.

    >Eh. Partially Agreed! It all depends on the situation. Which goes back to the undercover cop.

    >A Con artist is a lifestyle. Being Delusional is a state of mind.
     
  10. Reprise

    Reprise Semi-present

    Since I don't want to debate about how to care for children, I'm going to say that I agree in that so long as you do not hurt the child, you can express your opinions on the drawing. However, how would you know whether you would hurt the child or not? As you said, it is more complicated than simply "they are a child, therefore they will not hold a grudge".

    I said nothing about obedience or bitterness. What I said was that a lot of children are sensitive and some might take your words to heart and let it affect their motivation.

    You can be angry and still forgiving at the same time. Let us continue the "what if game"; if my friend starts an argument with me and later apologises, I can be angry with that friend and still accept their apology. If my friend was resolute on asking his crush out, and I pretty much ruined his 'moment', he has grounds to be angry at me, even if he does forgive me. And saying nothing is still not telling the truth, really.

    To be a con artist is to lie for a living. To believe your own lies is delusion. Although truthfully, I don't see any way you could be a con artist and believe your own lies; let us play the "what if game" again. Let's say you're a con artist who tells people that you need thousands of pounds to start a business, and that you'll pay them back fully one day. You couldn't believe your own lies; eventually you, the con man, would realise that you're not actually setting up any businesses, and that you're lying.
     
  11. Kitty

    Kitty I Survived The BG Massacre Staff Member Administrator

    I agree with this.

    If you are unknowingly spreading a lie, I don't think you're dishonest; as Reprise said, that's just ignorance. Being dishonest implies to me that you made a choice to not speak the truth.

    I think bending the truth does delude people. Maybe not all of the time, or very much, but even when there's only a subtle difference between the truth and the "truth", it's still not the same.

    Not that I'm judging, because I've already said I don't see a problem with little white lies, or more blatant ones, when need be. But if you're gonna lie, you should at least be honest with yourself about what you're doing, and why. XD
     
  12. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    Skimming through the thread (Admittedly didn't read much after the 3rd post and just wanted to comment because of Kitty's cop example) I would like to point out that it depends on the situation. Obviously the truth isn't a good idea with the cop example.
     

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