Intelligent Design vs. Darwinism

I remember reading something about some scientists recreating what they believe to be the early conditions on earth (You know, full of thunderstorms and devoid of life). Basically, they had the similar environment and sent an electric current through it. By doing that, they managed to create some amino acids or proteins or something. If you imagine that experiment being done, except with actual lightning bolts every 1/2 second, you'll eventually get life.

 

Failed as it may be, you also got to think about the size differences. Given the massive size of the Earth and how much more energy was going through, I think that the protiens needed would've eventually been made.

Personally, I believe God made us, but since nobody else has stepped up I'm doing a devil's advocate thing.

 

The link isn't working for me because my computer is really messed up but it sounds interesting. If intelligent Design is the same thing that I learned in philosophy then I think I understand what the docu was about.

If it is the analogy of the man who stumbles upon a rock on his walk picks it up and says that 'its just a rock, nothing that special' then he stumbles on a watch and sees all the moving parts working together and the complexity of it and knows that it must have been designed and couldn't have just came to be like the rock and so is the same for the universe. The universe is the watch. If it isn't that then... my bad.

There's a man who is a famous atheist here but I think he's famous in America and other places called Richard Dawkins he writes a book called the 'God Delusion' and how the universe only gives the impression of design.

 

WOW! I cannot believe he admitted any intelligent design in the universe. He is hated in my school by atheists and creationists alike because he is so stubborn and won't listen to any arguments. But actually I can believe that because its God he hates (he did this program called Religion: The root of all evil) rather than intelligent design itself.

Back to your thread question, i'm not very 'sciency' but don't they believe it was the big bang or something created the first life.

Are you a Hard Creationism, such as the earth was created 6000 years ago?

Also, I think that the evolutionists don't like intelligent design maybe in terms of God because why would God create imperfect beings that had to evolve. Why wouldn't he just create us perfect? However this argument assumes that you accept that we evolved from the same descendants as primape (or is it primate?)

Philosophers don't like intelligent design because unlike the watch where every part have a purpose there are parts of the universe that seem to have no purpose whatsover, Venus perhaps?

I hope all that made sense

 

The Big Bang is supposed to be the origin of our universe, not life itself. According to scientists, it took a very long time after the Big Bang for simple protons, neutrons, and electrons to form.

Creationism and Religion aren't always the same thing. You're starting to go more into the religious territory than simple Creationism. And also, not many religions believe the Earth was created 6000 years ago. Just people who believe every ounce of the Bible literally.

Why would God create perfect beings? Where is the fun in being perfect? Oh, and it is primate. Primape is a Pokemon.

 

I knew it! I knew it was a pokemon, lol. That manky evolve form.

Hmm, maybe the big bang created whatever created the electrons, protons and neutrons.

As for the perfect being thing that is true, lol.

But as for the intelligent designer thing the analogy is not a good one because in a watch there are no parts of it that serve no purpose, all the parts work in harmony which is not necessarily true of the universe there are parts of it that don't seem to serve a pirpose, dinosaurs, the uninhabited planets, earthquaes and so on.

 

Why should it? What is wrong with something existing without a purpose? Why do people try to believe that everything must have a purpose. I am perfectly fine with something not having a purpose. Heck, I even kinda believe that if humans have a purpose, it is to live and nothing more.

Well, for anybody who doesn't know what the Big Bang is, the Big Bang created our universe. Before the Big Bang, all of time and space was inside a tiny little particle (Which brings up my first questioning of the Big Bang, but I'll get to that later). At some point, the particle exploded into the largest explosion that has ever, or will ever, occur. Even after the explosion, it took millions (Probably even a billion) years for things to cool down enough for elementary particles to form. Then atoms, then the universe as it is.

As a result of the Big Bang, we can see what happens in an empty space such as space. Without anything to provide resistance, everything in space drifts away from where the Big Bang occurred. Scientists hypothesize three possible outcomes for this:

1. The rate at which everything is moving away will be too great for any sort of gravity to stop, so everything will drift away forever.

2. Eventually gravity will slow down everything that is moving until it all stops, and the universe would technically have a 'definite' size.

3. Gravity will overcome the inertia of everything and begin pulling everything back towards the Big Bang spot. Once everything collides, we have a Big Crunch and the process begins again.

Now, I do not understand where they got gravity into the mix. This is just what I remember reading before.

On to my questions of this. My most obvious question (Which invalidates the Big Bang particle containing all of space and time) is that how long was the particle there, and what was outside of it. One solution I thought up is that the universe goes through a cycle of Big Bangs and Big Crunches. Which then brings up the question of when did it start, or did it just happen this way and has been going on forever. And until science can answer that question, we look to religion to answer it. And heck, not even all religions have an answer to that question.

This kinda goes back to my purpose thing, but why must we understand? Aren't you comfortable with the fact that there are things you can't understand, not as you currently are? Honestly, I suppose it is this very question that causes arguments such as Religion vs. Atheism or Intelligent Design vs. Darwinism. If people understood that it it completely okay with not understanding things, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now. And, in case you want to reply to this part, I ask you: Why must we understand? What would understanding bring us that we couldn't live without?

 

Considering that at the utmost micro level, everything is made of energy, of course. But why must everything in the universe has a purpose? Why can't a random rock floating in space be that and nothing more? And, if we are the only form of life in the universe, what would the purpose of everything outside our galaxy be?

I believe we all have choice. But as for a purpose, if anything I believe it would be just being alive.

I'm willing to believe in it. Until it has been completely proven false, I'm willing to believe in the possibility of it being the truth. Do I completely believe in it being the reason for our exsistance? No. Unless it can be proven, I will be skeptical. I believe that God created everything. But until I die and personally meet Him, I'm willing to believe in the possibility that He isn't what created everything.

How are they pathetic and nonsense? They're both attempts to explain our origins. They both have holes in how they work (Such as how the Big Bang itself occurred. I remember reading something about Steven Hawkings claiming due to forces of gravity and other stuff, it can happen). And how is the Bible's account of creating pathetic and nonsense? An omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent god created everything in seven days. If you don't like the seven day thing, then hopefully I can provide two hypothetical solutions. Who says our seven days is seven days to a being powerful enough to create everything? Or, don't you think an all powerful being has the power to create everything in a literal seven days?

Ignorance is bliss. While I do enjoy learning new things, I've accepted the fact that I can't learn everything. If I can't understand something, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. The problem is that people make such a big deal about not understanding.

Of course. But has our nature always been right? But just because it is in our nature to learn doesn't mean we can't live without learning. We would be more like animals, but we'd still live.

While I get what you're saying, you're making it sound like people would rather be famous then actually understand what we don't know. But even then, people aren't always remembered for their actions. Out of the seven billion people in the world, how many do you think would properly remember famous people in history, such as Jesus or Isaac Newton?

How do we lose morals by not understanding who and what you are? And how does purpose fit into the acquisition of morals? This part is starting to go into another debate, but what determines morals? How much understanding is required to have morals? Don't you think that in some way or another, wild animals have morals? If that is true, then how much understanding to these animals have in order to have these morals?

 

Fair enough. I forget why I started to drift off topic.

I was using the "we're the only life in the universe" as an example.

Of course. Once more truths are revealed to me, I will change what I believe into something that seems more plausible to me.

From a purely scientific standpoint, nothing created gravity. Gravity is just the force that attracts a smaller object to a larger object. I don't know how it supposedly works; the Big Bang particle forming from nothing but gravity.

I was just going with the Bible form, even though I haven't actually read the Bible in a long time, if ever. I just usually say what I remember hearing. And there is no proof that God created everything in seven days, and there will never be proof. There will only be God explicitly telling people if He so chooses. And personally, I like simplicity. Makes things easier.

I'm similar, but perhaps not as optimistic. I believe that we cannot understand everything, at least not as we are now.

Considering all the annoying things that are going on with my life right now, I'm tempted to say dog.

In the end, most people are forgotten, no matter what actions they took in life. Consider some ancient war. Nowadays, all we remember are the generals and the army that won. For all we know, there could've been individuals in those armies who were remembered for a long time, but eventually forgotten.

I was thinking of the movie Supersize Me when I put Jesus. And as you said, a billion believe in him. But do they all know everything he did? Or at least the important parts. Aside from his crucifiction.

I'm here because I was born. I probably have a purpose, but my argument is why should everything have a purpose.

 

Strange....I was going over this in my Civilizations class 2 weeks ago! I believe that ID should not be taught because religion should not be involved with Science. If religion should be taught, it must be Religious Studies. America also crosses many religions and I think if there was a class which taught different religions (Hinduism, Judaism and Buddhism), the country would be at a greater state. Look at Canada and the UK. They have in place classes which teach their students on how to respect different cultures and we get taught them. Correlate that to the amount of murders there are every year. Watch "Bowling For Columbine."

In my own stance at this, I can say that I am Agnostic; I cannot prove that there is a God but I believe something is out there.

 

ID is a sneaky way for Christians to enter God into Science through the terms "Creator". It still possesses the same ideas and "some type of intelligence [who] created us" is still a type of "religion".
Darwinists have evidence on what has happened in evolution such as the fossils and the way embryos of several different creatures; for example a pig and a reptile look similar to each other, implying the fact that we all have a common ancestor.

I do not know what has happened in the past but if solid evidence is given to me whether there is a God or not, I will not believe it. That is why I'm sided towards Darwinism a little more. On the other hand, I do not believe the Big Bang in some extent because that doesn't explain "where" that came from either. That is why I'm Agnostic.